4 ms·

As nearly always - SUVs are the problem. Smaller, lower cars don't seem to have the same issues.

by ollie87 7y ago

war1025 7y ago
SUVs are just the worst of all worlds in my opinion. I really don't understand the appeal of them.
- magduf 7y ago
  People like big vehicles; people like to sit up higher; small women especially like them because it makes them feel more powerful. Finally, Americans just don't care about fuel economy, or cornering ability, or having a vehicle that doesn't roll over easily.
  - closeparen 7y ago
    People like to sit up higher so that they can see over the other people who like to sit up higher, recursively. People like to have a heavy vehicle so that they feel less at risk in a crash with other people who like to have heavy vehicles for the same reason, recursively. The base cases are more mysterious.
    - magduf 7y ago
      Exactly; it's basically an arms race.
  - gizmo385 7y ago
    > small women especially like them because it makes them feel more powerful [citation needed]
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  Every time my 78 year old mom climbs down into the passenger seat of my Model 3, I am reminded of the appeal of SUVs/crossovers/etc.
- arkades 7y ago
  Well, I recently switched from a sedan to an SUV, so let me help: 1. There are rows of SUVs parked at most residential intersections. This way I can actually see what's going on at the intersection, and if I can safely enter it. 2. Less headlight-in-eyes issues. 3. More storage capacity in the trunk. Yay! I don't live in Madrid or London; I can't just stop by the nice little corner store on my way home and get fresh produce. I have to do trips to Costco and haul back a supply. This makes a big difference. 4. More room for fitting the kid's car seat in the back. Since car seats in close proximity to a driver's seat are dangerous (if they should impact during an, uh, impact), this is safer. 5. Better stability in our regional weather. That's why I switched. Please be so kind as not to eat the serpent's tail: I don't care that if fewer people bought SUVs 1 and 2 would be irrelevant. I care that they -do- buy SUVs and this is my safety-oriented response to that reality.
  - paulryanrogers 7y ago
    > ...my safety-oriented response to that reality. So as people try to increase their safety in vehicle it becomes a feedback loop until the roads cannot be expanded further. Meanwhile lower drivers, pedestrians, bicyclists, and everyone living within a few miles of busy roads suffers from blinding headlights, more deadly impacts, and increased pollution; respectively. Glad we're all in this together!
    - arkades 7y ago
      Yes, this is what a tragedy of the commons is.
- potta_coffee 7y ago
  I've got an old 4Runner. It was $1400. It does great in snow. It doesn't get hung up on dirt roads like our minivan does (there are dirt roads where I live). I can fit the whole family and all of our ski gear. I can tow a trailer (van can do that but the car can't). It's body on frame construction like a truck and handles tons of abuse. Granted, it's actually more like a car than modern SUVs, which are huge...the 4Runner is narrow and can fit in my tiny driveway. Anyway, there's a lot to love about SUVs, they're practical for a whole lot of things.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  I used to feel this way until I rode around with my roommate a bit in his pickup. clipping a curb in my small hatchback would scrape or even deform the rims. in a big truck you don't have to care. he wouldn't even try to avoid curbs; he would just roll right over them if he felt they were inconvenient. another (possibly more legitimate) reason is that many speed bumps seem to be calibrated for large vehicles with lots of suspension travel. the speed bumps at the grocery store I go to are incredibly jarring in my car, feels like I am bottoming out the suspension even under 5mph. in a big truck, this is not a problem.
- lb1lf 7y ago
  As for SUVs I pretty much agree with your sentiment, but a 'proper' for lack of a better term 4x4 has a lot of things going for it - -You're sitting significantly higher than most traffic, giving you a much better idea of what is going on around you. -Mirrors tend to be very large by car standards, further enhancing your awareness. -Large wheel arches tend to allow a smaller turn radius, making them surprisingly simple to drive. -While riding tall, they are often both relatively short and narrow, further easing your life in traffic. -Oh, and winters. Anecdata - my Land Cruiser is shorter and narrower than my wife's VW Passat, has more than twice the trunk space and just over half the turn radius. The penalty paid is the fuel consumption; when Toyota found out how thirsty the engine was, they shrugged and designed a larger fuel tank.
  - u801e 7y ago
    > You're sitting significantly higher than most traffic, giving you a much better idea of what is going on around you. This also comes with a higher center of gravity which makes it more difficult to control the vehicle during emergency situations > -Mirrors tend to be very large by car standards, further enhancing your awareness. Larger vehicles tend to have bigger blindspots (even with properly adjusted mirrors) > While riding tall, they are often both relatively short and narrow, further easing your life in traffic. But you still have a higher center of gravity and worse vehicle handling as a result. Trying to swerve around something or make an emergency lane change makes it more likely you'll lose control of the vehicle > Oh, and winters. This is more a factor of the type of tires used and how many wheels are driven. My all-wheel drive vehicles do very well in the winters when equipped with snow tires. > Anecdata - my Land Cruiser is shorter and narrower than my wife's VW Passat, has more than twice the trunk space and just over half the turn radius. How would your Land Cruiser do in the moose test versus the VW Passat? This is the video[1] of a Toyota Hilux during that test. And this is a video[2] of a VW Passat. Note that the first video was done while the driver was going 37 mph. The second was at 45 mph. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoHbn8-ROiQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoHbn8-ROiQ [2] https://www.motor1.com/news/388271/euro-spec-vw-passat-moose-test/ https://www.motor1.com/news/388271/euro-spec-vw-passat-moose...
    - 7y ago
- ollie87 7y ago
  Me either, they're vile things.
cmrdporcupine 7y ago
Remember when The Simpson's Canyonero clip was satire/comedy? Now it just looks like an ad for a real car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA
- kube-system 7y ago
  You must not remember what real car ads used to look like in the 80s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j-qy1s1RIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j-qy1s1RIM
  - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
    Dude I'm from Alberta, Canada's Texas. I grew up with these ads on constant rotation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivnYaqmXwS4&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivnYaqmXwS4&t=1s But if you look at the biggest pickups from the 80s they're not really that big. The whole compact and subcompact truck market has vanished. People only want 'em big.

As nearly always - SUVs are the problem. Smaller, lower cars don't seem to have the same issues.

war1025 7y ago

SUVs are just the worst of all worlds in my opinion. I really don't understand the appeal of them.

magduf 7y ago
People like big vehicles; people like to sit up higher; small women especially like them because it makes them feel more powerful. Finally, Americans just don't care about fuel economy, or cornering ability, or having a vehicle that doesn't roll over easily.
- closeparen 7y ago
  People like to sit up higher so that they can see over the other people who like to sit up higher, recursively. People like to have a heavy vehicle so that they feel less at risk in a crash with other people who like to have heavy vehicles for the same reason, recursively. The base cases are more mysterious.
  - magduf 7y ago
    Exactly; it's basically an arms race.
- gizmo385 7y ago
  > small women especially like them because it makes them feel more powerful [citation needed]
rootusrootus 7y ago
Every time my 78 year old mom climbs down into the passenger seat of my Model 3, I am reminded of the appeal of SUVs/crossovers/etc.
arkades 7y ago
Well, I recently switched from a sedan to an SUV, so let me help: 1. There are rows of SUVs parked at most residential intersections. This way I can actually see what's going on at the intersection, and if I can safely enter it. 2. Less headlight-in-eyes issues. 3. More storage capacity in the trunk. Yay! I don't live in Madrid or London; I can't just stop by the nice little corner store on my way home and get fresh produce. I have to do trips to Costco and haul back a supply. This makes a big difference. 4. More room for fitting the kid's car seat in the back. Since car seats in close proximity to a driver's seat are dangerous (if they should impact during an, uh, impact), this is safer. 5. Better stability in our regional weather. That's why I switched. Please be so kind as not to eat the serpent's tail: I don't care that if fewer people bought SUVs 1 and 2 would be irrelevant. I care that they -do- buy SUVs and this is my safety-oriented response to that reality.
- paulryanrogers 7y ago
  > ...my safety-oriented response to that reality. So as people try to increase their safety in vehicle it becomes a feedback loop until the roads cannot be expanded further. Meanwhile lower drivers, pedestrians, bicyclists, and everyone living within a few miles of busy roads suffers from blinding headlights, more deadly impacts, and increased pollution; respectively. Glad we're all in this together!
  - arkades 7y ago
    Yes, this is what a tragedy of the commons is.
potta_coffee 7y ago
I've got an old 4Runner. It was $1400. It does great in snow. It doesn't get hung up on dirt roads like our minivan does (there are dirt roads where I live). I can fit the whole family and all of our ski gear. I can tow a trailer (van can do that but the car can't). It's body on frame construction like a truck and handles tons of abuse. Granted, it's actually more like a car than modern SUVs, which are huge...the 4Runner is narrow and can fit in my tiny driveway. Anyway, there's a lot to love about SUVs, they're practical for a whole lot of things.
leetcrew 7y ago
I used to feel this way until I rode around with my roommate a bit in his pickup. clipping a curb in my small hatchback would scrape or even deform the rims. in a big truck you don't have to care. he wouldn't even try to avoid curbs; he would just roll right over them if he felt they were inconvenient. another (possibly more legitimate) reason is that many speed bumps seem to be calibrated for large vehicles with lots of suspension travel. the speed bumps at the grocery store I go to are incredibly jarring in my car, feels like I am bottoming out the suspension even under 5mph. in a big truck, this is not a problem.
lb1lf 7y ago
As for SUVs I pretty much agree with your sentiment, but a 'proper' for lack of a better term 4x4 has a lot of things going for it - -You're sitting significantly higher than most traffic, giving you a much better idea of what is going on around you. -Mirrors tend to be very large by car standards, further enhancing your awareness. -Large wheel arches tend to allow a smaller turn radius, making them surprisingly simple to drive. -While riding tall, they are often both relatively short and narrow, further easing your life in traffic. -Oh, and winters. Anecdata - my Land Cruiser is shorter and narrower than my wife's VW Passat, has more than twice the trunk space and just over half the turn radius. The penalty paid is the fuel consumption; when Toyota found out how thirsty the engine was, they shrugged and designed a larger fuel tank.
- u801e 7y ago
  > You're sitting significantly higher than most traffic, giving you a much better idea of what is going on around you. This also comes with a higher center of gravity which makes it more difficult to control the vehicle during emergency situations > -Mirrors tend to be very large by car standards, further enhancing your awareness. Larger vehicles tend to have bigger blindspots (even with properly adjusted mirrors) > While riding tall, they are often both relatively short and narrow, further easing your life in traffic. But you still have a higher center of gravity and worse vehicle handling as a result. Trying to swerve around something or make an emergency lane change makes it more likely you'll lose control of the vehicle > Oh, and winters. This is more a factor of the type of tires used and how many wheels are driven. My all-wheel drive vehicles do very well in the winters when equipped with snow tires. > Anecdata - my Land Cruiser is shorter and narrower than my wife's VW Passat, has more than twice the trunk space and just over half the turn radius. How would your Land Cruiser do in the moose test versus the VW Passat? This is the video[1] of a Toyota Hilux during that test. And this is a video[2] of a VW Passat. Note that the first video was done while the driver was going 37 mph. The second was at 45 mph. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoHbn8-ROiQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoHbn8-ROiQ [2] https://www.motor1.com/news/388271/euro-spec-vw-passat-moose-test/ https://www.motor1.com/news/388271/euro-spec-vw-passat-moose...
  - 7y ago
ollie87 7y ago
Me either, they're vile things.

cmrdporcupine 7y ago

Remember when The Simpson's Canyonero clip was satire/comedy? Now it just looks like an ad for a real car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI_Jl5WFQkA

kube-system 7y ago
You must not remember what real car ads used to look like in the 80s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j-qy1s1RIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j-qy1s1RIM
- cmrdporcupine 7y ago
  Dude I'm from Alberta, Canada's Texas. I grew up with these ads on constant rotation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivnYaqmXwS4&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivnYaqmXwS4&t=1s But if you look at the biggest pickups from the 80s they're not really that big. The whole compact and subcompact truck market has vanished. People only want 'em big.