4 ms·

Copper kills coronavirus. Why aren’t our surfaces covered in it?

10 points by notlukesky 7y ago

Someone1234 7y ago
- It is expensive. - People steal it. - It is difficult to work with. - Copper industry trade groups are pushing this issue/funding this research. - Hospitals are rarely designed with infectious controls in mind, that's why they have drop ceilings, impossible to clean surface materials, standard computer keyboards, and materials that would be damaged if steam cleaned in almost every room. Next time you're in a hospital room, just look upwards and ask yourself how you'd clean that ceiling. - Hospitals need a redesign in more than just the door knobs, but they're "private business" and regulation is "bad" so don't expect to see that changing in the US soon. Instead hospitals spend money on atmosphere in public spaces, so people elect to do procedures there. If you added a public rating system for infectious disease design, things would change, but until then nothing will. PS - I'm not anti-copper contact surfaces, I'm just pointing out this is a drop in the bucket of issues with medical facility design. We can do one without doing them all, but our priorities as a society will keep us from doing any at the current rate.
- anfilt 7y ago
  Things can be plated in copper or even silver. However plating in high use can be worn away via friction.
- gus_massa 7y ago
  Also: - It forms a rusty surface, so you must polish it everyday because nobody likes a rusty hospital. (Is the rusted version better or worse against the virus?) - Can you use bleach to clean it?
  - anfilt 7y ago
    Baldwin brass does not tarnish. I don't know if has any antimicrobial properties though. Plain copper or brass if you don't want spend a lot time buffing or polishing can actually be easily cleaned with sodium cyanide. Although I am sure there are other cleaners that would be easier to properly dispose of. Although, I know in factories they use it clean brass and copper quickly. Apparently vinegar can work well too never tried it though.
    - gus_massa 7y ago
      I think we agree that Sodium Cyanide not safe enough to use nearby general public. (I used Potassium Cyanide in my secondary school because it has an specialization in Chemistry. It is usable in a lab or factory environments, but you must be careful.) Ammonia should also be useful, because it forms a nice blue complex with cooper, but it is not as strong as the cyanide complex. There are 5% solutions for home use, but I'm not sure that they are good enough for cleaning the rust and safe enough for a hospital room nearby a patient. About vinegar, I'm not sure if it forms a complex, but can apparently dissolve the rust. I don't remember trying it, but from one of the first links in Google https://www.exploratorium.edu/science_explorer/copper_caper.html https://www.exploratorium.edu/science_explorer/copper_caper....
      - tropo 7y ago
        Sulfuric acid will remove the oxide without damaging the copper. Tested and known to work: a syrupy-thick 18 molar concentration. So that's a cyanide-free answer to the problem. Cover the ceiling and walls with copper foil, and regularly mop them down with 18 molar sulfuric acid to keep them pretty. Rinse carefully, especially the ceiling. The cleaning solution is also a great disinfectant all by itself.
- ShorsHammer 7y ago
  You'd be surprised how cheap gold plating actually is and how little material it actually uses.
  - anfilt 7y ago
    While plating could save money. Plating wears through in high use areas. I suppose you could plate hardware as thick as you can and give it a rated life span. Same with silver which also has microbial properties which is better of two I don't know.
kwhitefoot 7y ago
As it seems to be widely agreed that copper or copper alloy surfaces are a good idea does anyone have any suggestions for methods of applying copper to existing surfaces such as keyboards, mice, mobile phone cases, gloves, door handles, etc. Could powdered copper suspended in some kind of water based lacquer work for instance?

10 points by notlukesky 7y ago

- It is expensive. - People steal it. - It is difficult to work with. - Copper industry trade groups are pushing this issue/funding this research. - Hospitals are rarely designed with infectious controls in mind, that's why they have drop ceilings, impossible to clean surface materials, standard computer keyboards, and materials that would be damaged if steam cleaned in almost every room. Next time you're in a hospital room, just look upwards and ask yourself how you'd clean that ceiling. - Hospitals need a redesign in more than just the door knobs, but they're "private business" and regulation is "bad" so don't expect to see that changing in the US soon. Instead hospitals spend money on atmosphere in public spaces, so people elect to do procedures there. If you added a public rating system for infectious disease design, things would change, but until then nothing will. PS - I'm not anti-copper contact surfaces, I'm just pointing out this is a drop in the bucket of issues with medical facility design. We can do one without doing them all, but our priorities as a society will keep us from doing any at the current rate.

anfilt 7y ago
Things can be plated in copper or even silver. However plating in high use can be worn away via friction.
gus_massa 7y ago
Also: - It forms a rusty surface, so you must polish it everyday because nobody likes a rusty hospital. (Is the rusted version better or worse against the virus?) - Can you use bleach to clean it?
- anfilt 7y ago
  Baldwin brass does not tarnish. I don't know if has any antimicrobial properties though. Plain copper or brass if you don't want spend a lot time buffing or polishing can actually be easily cleaned with sodium cyanide. Although I am sure there are other cleaners that would be easier to properly dispose of. Although, I know in factories they use it clean brass and copper quickly. Apparently vinegar can work well too never tried it though.
  - gus_massa 7y ago
    I think we agree that Sodium Cyanide not safe enough to use nearby general public. (I used Potassium Cyanide in my secondary school because it has an specialization in Chemistry. It is usable in a lab or factory environments, but you must be careful.) Ammonia should also be useful, because it forms a nice blue complex with cooper, but it is not as strong as the cyanide complex. There are 5% solutions for home use, but I'm not sure that they are good enough for cleaning the rust and safe enough for a hospital room nearby a patient. About vinegar, I'm not sure if it forms a complex, but can apparently dissolve the rust. I don't remember trying it, but from one of the first links in Google https://www.exploratorium.edu/science_explorer/copper_caper.html https://www.exploratorium.edu/science_explorer/copper_caper....
    - tropo 7y ago
      Sulfuric acid will remove the oxide without damaging the copper. Tested and known to work: a syrupy-thick 18 molar concentration. So that's a cyanide-free answer to the problem. Cover the ceiling and walls with copper foil, and regularly mop them down with 18 molar sulfuric acid to keep them pretty. Rinse carefully, especially the ceiling. The cleaning solution is also a great disinfectant all by itself.
ShorsHammer 7y ago
You'd be surprised how cheap gold plating actually is and how little material it actually uses.
- anfilt 7y ago
  While plating could save money. Plating wears through in high use areas. I suppose you could plate hardware as thick as you can and give it a rated life span. Same with silver which also has microbial properties which is better of two I don't know.

kwhitefoot 7y ago

As it seems to be widely agreed that copper or copper alloy surfaces are a good idea does anyone have any suggestions for methods of applying copper to existing surfaces such as keyboards, mice, mobile phone cases, gloves, door handles, etc. Could powdered copper suspended in some kind of water based lacquer work for instance?