7 ms·

I hate credentialism like this. It's anti-intellectual. There are many smart people on HN who are perfectly capable of reading and understanding research liter

by mrb 7y ago

I hate credentialism like this. It's anti-intellectual. There are many smart people on HN who are perfectly capable of reading and understanding research literature in an area that is NOT their primary expertise, and who can make half-decent arguments and deductions. Reply to the points he raises (if you can). Don't belittle him.

unityByFreedom 7y ago
Credentialism aside, there were no sources provided. I do find the point about no SARS vaccine compelling, however. Is that true? I know the flu vaccine gets updated every year or so with new viruses that are prevalent, so if there is no SARS vaccine then I wonder if that is true and if it is true it couldn't be developed. Again, multiple things thrown out there without sources which are not common knowledge, followed by "you can look this up yourself".
- OJFord 7y ago
  I've only quickly searched, and to be honest it's a bit thick with foreign terminology for me to quickly glean much from it, but seems like this might be the paper the top-level commenter referred to: https://dx.doi.org/10.1128%2FJVI.02395-10 https://dx.doi.org/10.1128%2FJVI.02395-10 > I do find the point about no SARS [-CoV[-1]] vaccine compelling, however. Is that true? Wikipedia says so, and just gives essentially the same advice as being given for SARS-CoV-2 (or any human-transmissible virus, I imagine). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome#Prevention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndr...
- allovernow 7y ago
  Please do a cursory search. There have been thousands of papers about the virus and they are almost all severely dire. This information has been floating around for months. Many of the predictions in the papers are coming true. Like the absurdly high R0 value. It is increasingly obvious that China was not forthcoming with their numbers. Look at all these countries pissing away literal trillions of dollars shutting down. This is a real fucking plague.
  - milofeynman 7y ago
    Please don't tell people to do a search. If you're going to provide information provide sources, otherwise you're no better than Russian disinformation bots. This is exactly the kind of tactic they use. If you have a claim, provide a source. You are currently spreading unhelpful misinformation.
gjulianm 7y ago
> There are many smart people on HN who are perfectly capable of reading and understanding research literature in an area that is NOT their primary expertise Most of those people know that reading papers is far from enough to understand the issues at hand and making such stark statements. I've seen this issue a lot in HN: people who have no experience at all in a field, who think they are very smart, reading something on a paper or Wikipedia and then making these broad statements, specially without any sources. Intellectualism implies being humble and recognizing when one is not an expert in the matter, in order to avoid spreading misinformation and doubt.
- allovernow 7y ago
  >Most of those people know that reading papers is far from enough to understand the issues at hand and making such stark statements Some of us people know that grad school literally consists of learning potentially exclusively from papers. These papers represent the cutting edge of human knowledge and for someone familiar with scientific literature they are not that hard to parse. Doctors and scientists are humans like you and me. I'm not making policy here, I'm posting on a forum where unusually intelligent people from all disciplines gather and casually speculate on any number of topics. Though I guarantee at this point that I understand the problem at least as well as some 90% of our politicians...with or without sources.
  - gjulianm 7y ago
    > Some of us people know that grad school literally consists of learning potentially exclusively from papers. These papers represent the cutting edge of human knowledge and for someone familiar with scientific literature they are not that hard to parse. Doctors and scientists are humans like you and me. Doctors and scientists are humans that, like you and me, spend years and years of study, practice and research on their own specific topic, with knowledgeable people by their side to guide, question them and answer their doubts. Parsing a paper is very different from actually understanding it, specially if you don't have the context they have. > I'm not making policy here You're right, but we have already enough disinformation as it is. We all have a certain responsibility towards not sharing unfounded statements in this situation. > a forum where unusually intelligent people from all disciplines gather HN is an echo chamber of programmers, mostly from the start-up world. A constant issue in this forum is programmers thinking that they can solve any problem (I still remember some discussions on sheet music that were extremely out of touch with actual music practice). Also, "unusually intelligent"? Really? > Though I guarantee at this point that I understand the problem at least as well as some 90% of our politicians...with or without sources. The arrogance here is astounding.

by mrb 7y ago

unityByFreedom 7y ago

Credentialism aside, there were no sources provided. I do find the point about no SARS vaccine compelling, however. Is that true? I know the flu vaccine gets updated every year or so with new viruses that are prevalent, so if there is no SARS vaccine then I wonder if that is true and if it is true it couldn't be developed. Again, multiple things thrown out there without sources which are not common knowledge, followed by "you can look this up yourself".

OJFord 7y ago
I've only quickly searched, and to be honest it's a bit thick with foreign terminology for me to quickly glean much from it, but seems like this might be the paper the top-level commenter referred to: https://dx.doi.org/10.1128%2FJVI.02395-10 https://dx.doi.org/10.1128%2FJVI.02395-10 > I do find the point about no SARS [-CoV[-1]] vaccine compelling, however. Is that true? Wikipedia says so, and just gives essentially the same advice as being given for SARS-CoV-2 (or any human-transmissible virus, I imagine). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome#Prevention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndr...
allovernow 7y ago
Please do a cursory search. There have been thousands of papers about the virus and they are almost all severely dire. This information has been floating around for months. Many of the predictions in the papers are coming true. Like the absurdly high R0 value. It is increasingly obvious that China was not forthcoming with their numbers. Look at all these countries pissing away literal trillions of dollars shutting down. This is a real fucking plague.
- milofeynman 7y ago
  Please don't tell people to do a search. If you're going to provide information provide sources, otherwise you're no better than Russian disinformation bots. This is exactly the kind of tactic they use. If you have a claim, provide a source. You are currently spreading unhelpful misinformation.

gjulianm 7y ago

> There are many smart people on HN who are perfectly capable of reading and understanding research literature in an area that is NOT their primary expertise Most of those people know that reading papers is far from enough to understand the issues at hand and making such stark statements. I've seen this issue a lot in HN: people who have no experience at all in a field, who think they are very smart, reading something on a paper or Wikipedia and then making these broad statements, specially without any sources. Intellectualism implies being humble and recognizing when one is not an expert in the matter, in order to avoid spreading misinformation and doubt.

allovernow 7y ago
>Most of those people know that reading papers is far from enough to understand the issues at hand and making such stark statements Some of us people know that grad school literally consists of learning potentially exclusively from papers. These papers represent the cutting edge of human knowledge and for someone familiar with scientific literature they are not that hard to parse. Doctors and scientists are humans like you and me. I'm not making policy here, I'm posting on a forum where unusually intelligent people from all disciplines gather and casually speculate on any number of topics. Though I guarantee at this point that I understand the problem at least as well as some 90% of our politicians...with or without sources.
- gjulianm 7y ago
  > Some of us people know that grad school literally consists of learning potentially exclusively from papers. These papers represent the cutting edge of human knowledge and for someone familiar with scientific literature they are not that hard to parse. Doctors and scientists are humans like you and me. Doctors and scientists are humans that, like you and me, spend years and years of study, practice and research on their own specific topic, with knowledgeable people by their side to guide, question them and answer their doubts. Parsing a paper is very different from actually understanding it, specially if you don't have the context they have. > I'm not making policy here You're right, but we have already enough disinformation as it is. We all have a certain responsibility towards not sharing unfounded statements in this situation. > a forum where unusually intelligent people from all disciplines gather HN is an echo chamber of programmers, mostly from the start-up world. A constant issue in this forum is programmers thinking that they can solve any problem (I still remember some discussions on sheet music that were extremely out of touch with actual music practice). Also, "unusually intelligent"? Really? > Though I guarantee at this point that I understand the problem at least as well as some 90% of our politicians...with or without sources. The arrogance here is astounding.