4 ms·

UBI could be possible in a closed society, but not if you are open for uncontrolled influx of people from outside your society. Because the offer "get free mone

by 101404 7y ago

UBI could be possible in a closed society, but not if you are open for uncontrolled influx of people from outside your society. Because the offer "get free money" is just too good. There was the choice what to focus on, and we decided we wanted uncontrolled immigration. Fair choice, but the consequence is that UBI won't work anymore.

cyphar 7y ago
> we decided we wanted uncontrolled immigration The US definitely has an immigration policy. Not to mention that no serious politician today (despite what some media outlets may claim) is running on a platform of open borders.
tomp 7y ago
That's why I've been arguing for a while that open immigration into Europe is unfeasible... EU countries already have forms of UBI, in the sense of strong social safety net, (mostly) free medicine, etc. Open immigration might be easier on the US as it provides less unconditional benefits to its residents.
- 101404 7y ago
  In fact, the US too once had a better welfare system. Uncontrolled migration is a thing that started in the 70s. Confidentially around the same time the welfare state was destroyed.
TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
I’m not aware of any place that has a completely open boarder. What are you referring to here?
- 101404 7y ago
  I am not aware that I claimed any place would have completely open border. I am certain that you know what I am referring to, but want to avoid a serious discussion by playing with technicalities. No thanks.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    I’m genuinely not aware of what you’re referring to. I live in a relatively small city on the island state of Tasmania, and am probably way behind on some aspects of global politics.
- netsharc 7y ago
  I guess he's talking about the European/Merkel "we'll grant the Syrians right to stay" to mean completely opening the EU border...
jyounker 7y ago
> we decided we wanted uncontrolled immigration The US is notoriously complicated to gain entry to by legal means.
- 101404 7y ago
  Yes, and I don't really want to discuss the pros or cons of open borders. But it is also notoriously complicated to get a million dollars.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> There was the choice what to focus on, and we decided we wanted uncontrolled immigration. No, we didn't; US immigration is controlled both numerically and by qualities of immigrants. You may disagree with the choices of controls, but they absolutely exist.

by 101404 7y ago

cyphar 7y ago

> we decided we wanted uncontrolled immigration The US definitely has an immigration policy. Not to mention that no serious politician today (despite what some media outlets may claim) is running on a platform of open borders.

tomp 7y ago

That's why I've been arguing for a while that open immigration into Europe is unfeasible... EU countries already have forms of UBI, in the sense of strong social safety net, (mostly) free medicine, etc. Open immigration might be easier on the US as it provides less unconditional benefits to its residents.

101404 7y ago
In fact, the US too once had a better welfare system. Uncontrolled migration is a thing that started in the 70s. Confidentially around the same time the welfare state was destroyed.

TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago

I’m not aware of any place that has a completely open boarder. What are you referring to here?

101404 7y ago
I am not aware that I claimed any place would have completely open border. I am certain that you know what I am referring to, but want to avoid a serious discussion by playing with technicalities. No thanks.
- TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
  I’m genuinely not aware of what you’re referring to. I live in a relatively small city on the island state of Tasmania, and am probably way behind on some aspects of global politics.
netsharc 7y ago
I guess he's talking about the European/Merkel "we'll grant the Syrians right to stay" to mean completely opening the EU border...

jyounker 7y ago

> we decided we wanted uncontrolled immigration The US is notoriously complicated to gain entry to by legal means.

101404 7y ago
Yes, and I don't really want to discuss the pros or cons of open borders. But it is also notoriously complicated to get a million dollars.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> There was the choice what to focus on, and we decided we wanted uncontrolled immigration. No, we didn't; US immigration is controlled both numerically and by qualities of immigrants. You may disagree with the choices of controls, but they absolutely exist.