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When we bought our house it had a lawn in the backyard. I never really liked taking care of it. Last year I worked on getting rid of the bermuda grass in my bac

When we bought our house it had a lawn in the backyard. I never really liked taking care of it. Last year I worked on getting rid of the bermuda grass in my back yard. This year I put out some wild flower seeds and watched what came up. I still worked on removing the plants I didn't want, but I let a lot of the weeds come up. Most of the seeds I put out didn't take, but that's fine. I got to know the natural plants that come up. Others look at it and see an unkempt yard, but it makes me much happier than my lawn ever did. It's green, it takes less water (zero) and if you watch closely there are more birds, bees, lady bugs, and others than I ever saw with the lawn. Stories like this one of a more careful management of land make me hopeful. I'm working to get something better going with my little plot of land too.

WalterBright 7y ago
I've thrown out wildflower seeds many times on my lawn, but nothing took root. So I've been trying simply mowing it once a month to keep the blackberries and scotch broom from taking over, and seeing what happens. (Blackberries and scotch broom run amok if left alone, and the former creates an impenetrable hedge taller than myself with a dead zone underneath, everything else choked out. It takes repeated mowings over several years to finally kill them.)
- frereubu 7y ago
  You need more prep to get a wildflower meadow going. The Royal Horticultural Society has a good guide here: https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=436 https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=436
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    Thank you, but that looks like a lot of work :-( and I have a brown thumb (everything I plant turns brown). It seems reasonable to me that native plants should grow without intensive assistance (else they would go extinct). Why does this not happen?
    - timclark 7y ago
      My key reading from the article was over-fertility leads to mono-culture, so paradoxically you need to reduce soil fertility to encourage diversity. Reducing soil fertility probably needs intervention to remove rotting vegetation etc. I am guessing that at one point in time native plants would have had animals and insects that were eating them and maybe reducing soil fertility.
      - pfdietz 7y ago
        I think the reduced fertility was because the fields were being used to make hay, rather than being cut and the cuttings allowed to rot in place. The minerals in the hay were removed from the field, gradually depleting the soil.
      - noelwelsh 7y ago
        ^This (which is the same thing both the original article and the RHS article said). Grass will out compete wild flowers if the fertility of the soil is too high. Either: - get rid of the grass - mow it very short and then plant wild flowers. Just throwing seeds onto the lawn will do nothing. To get rid of grass either: - dig it out (easy in the right soil; very hard in clay which is a lot of the UK) - cover it with cardboard, cover the cardboard with soil, and plant on top. I'm currently converting our front lawn to wild flowers. Luckily we don't have clay so I'm able to dig out the grass.
    - pvaldes 7y ago
      > I have a brown thumb Definitely could help with that. Send me a mail with some close photos of the weeds in the area, and basic info about the continent and climate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardiness_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardiness_zone) You can cut the house or recognisable parts in the photos. I don't care about that and I don't need your exact location. Soil, exposition (sun?, deep shadow?) and climate is much more important. Of course if your neighbours or administration throw weed killers to the soil or water systematically, nothing will grow, no matter what you try. Nothing except the more badass plants, but then you would have bigger problems than brown thumbs.
- pvaldes 7y ago
  Start with pots of perennials instead.
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  If you’re removing Himalayan blackberries you have to dig the rhizome out. It’s not enough to cut it down. Basically you take an adze or similar and cut in where the shoots are coming out of the ground. Then pull up on the shoots and a little ball will come up with them. Here in Washington State the Himalayan blackberries are an invasive species which grows all over the place. There are no natural predators here. If they become established then they kill everything around them including some trees. The only reliable way to remove them is by digging out the rhizome after cutting them to the ground. It can take several years to completely eliminate them from an area
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    If you keep mowing them, they eventually starve and die. They cannot live off of the root ball forever. So far it looks like it takes two years for that to happen. Every time they throw out shoots it consumes the root ball's food. Cutting off the shoots before they can photosynthesize more food will do the trick. It also helps to cut them down after they flower and before their resources get sucked back into the root ball in the fall. For scotch broom, they'll also grow back if you cut them off at ground level. But I found if you cut them off right after they flower and start going to seed, they don't grow back. Apparently they throw so many resources into the flower they can't recover. We also have a huge problem with english ivy, which looks nice but kills the trees.
    - solstice 7y ago
      I've got nothing to add but I just wanted to remark that your description sounds incredibly gruesome.
- jgraham 7y ago
  I fully agree that a garden overtaken by brambles isn't a nice thing. But it's also not true that scrubland in general is some kind of death to nature. Plants like blackberries provide protection from predation and browsing heribovores. That means they're good habitats for many species of bird, and also that they're nature's nurseries for woodland, as young trees are protected from passing deer and other animals that would otherwise eat them.
- tutanchamun 7y ago
  Maybe you can rent a sod remover machine? I've seen those rented out for ~40 USD per day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Qd33NhflQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Qd33NhflQ With those machines it's more comfortable then the spade method [0], especially if the area is larger. After the sod is removed (you can put it on the compost with the bottom up to regain good soil for future uses) pour sand onto the area and mix it in. This will remove nutrients from the soil which is what many wildflowers like. Then throw out your wildflower seeds which you need to press on afterwards (there are tools, but as a cheap method you can just walk over them), so that the wind doesn't blow them away. In the end water them (also for the next 2-4 weeks). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQuffl5Engo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQuffl5Engo
surge 7y ago
I have a nice moss carpet in and little plants that bloom purple flowers in the spring. I think perfect grass myth is something that should be done away with, often times if you let the natural plants grow in they keep other weeds like dandelions out. I still mow, but I just let the grass grow where it needs to or places where nothing else is growing. I don't need to fertilize or harm the water drainage either.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  I thought that the problem with moss is that if you have a dry spell it just dies away and flakes off leaving bare unprotected earth. Grass dies back but stays physically there for longer, holding the soil together, and then it's ready to recover more quickly afterward.
- pvaldes 7y ago
  > I have a nice moss carpet and little plants that bloom purple flowers in the spring Probably wild violets. Moss gardens are an interesting cultural thing. Begin Japanology has even a chapter dedicated to moss in japanese culture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up5jKSreGrA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up5jKSreGrA
jgraham 7y ago
As well as the advice elsewhere in the thread about reducing soil fertility to prevent grasses outcompeting wildflowers, it's worth noting that many species may take more than one year to establish. Annuals like — in the UK — poppies and cornflowers are more likely to grow the first summer after they're planted so can be used as attractive cover whilst perenials are taking seed.
nerdponx 7y ago
One issue with this in the northeast USA is the increasing prevalence and danger of ticks and tick-borne illnesses like Lyme disease (which I had once and do not want again). I haven't yet figured out how to reconcile my respect for that danger with my hatred of green lawns.
contingencies 7y ago
Not sure where you are based but have you considered getting in touch with your local environmental groups or speaking to native plant enthusiasts at plant nurseries, botanical gardens or gardening events? Typically there is a lot of local knowledge with respect to both exotic (eg. classic food producing) and local species and propagation techniques and people are very happy to share experiences. In Australia we have many cross-pollinating communities in this space including growers associations, gardening societies, permaculture, bush care, native plant groups, national parks associations, etc. Also, check out http://inaturalist.org/ http://inaturalist.org/ - challenge yourself to spot one new local species of plant, animal or fungi every day. AI and people will help you identify them. It's an awesomely gamified natural nerd-out.
jimkri 7y ago
Your comment reminded me of Michael Pollans book: Second nature. Its a really interesting book that talks about gardening, and also starts by talking about lawn care and how we are all made to believe that a trimmed lawn is the American way. https://www.amazon.com/Second-Nature-Gardeners-Michael-Pollan/dp/0802140114 https://www.amazon.com/Second-Nature-Gardeners-Michael-Polla...

WalterBright 7y ago

I've thrown out wildflower seeds many times on my lawn, but nothing took root. So I've been trying simply mowing it once a month to keep the blackberries and scotch broom from taking over, and seeing what happens. (Blackberries and scotch broom run amok if left alone, and the former creates an impenetrable hedge taller than myself with a dead zone underneath, everything else choked out. It takes repeated mowings over several years to finally kill them.)

frereubu 7y ago
You need more prep to get a wildflower meadow going. The Royal Horticultural Society has a good guide here: https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=436 https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=436
- WalterBright 7y ago
  Thank you, but that looks like a lot of work :-( and I have a brown thumb (everything I plant turns brown). It seems reasonable to me that native plants should grow without intensive assistance (else they would go extinct). Why does this not happen?
  - timclark 7y ago
    My key reading from the article was over-fertility leads to mono-culture, so paradoxically you need to reduce soil fertility to encourage diversity. Reducing soil fertility probably needs intervention to remove rotting vegetation etc. I am guessing that at one point in time native plants would have had animals and insects that were eating them and maybe reducing soil fertility.
    - pfdietz 7y ago
      I think the reduced fertility was because the fields were being used to make hay, rather than being cut and the cuttings allowed to rot in place. The minerals in the hay were removed from the field, gradually depleting the soil.
    - noelwelsh 7y ago
      ^This (which is the same thing both the original article and the RHS article said). Grass will out compete wild flowers if the fertility of the soil is too high. Either: - get rid of the grass - mow it very short and then plant wild flowers. Just throwing seeds onto the lawn will do nothing. To get rid of grass either: - dig it out (easy in the right soil; very hard in clay which is a lot of the UK) - cover it with cardboard, cover the cardboard with soil, and plant on top. I'm currently converting our front lawn to wild flowers. Luckily we don't have clay so I'm able to dig out the grass.
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    > I have a brown thumb Definitely could help with that. Send me a mail with some close photos of the weeds in the area, and basic info about the continent and climate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardiness_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardiness_zone) You can cut the house or recognisable parts in the photos. I don't care about that and I don't need your exact location. Soil, exposition (sun?, deep shadow?) and climate is much more important. Of course if your neighbours or administration throw weed killers to the soil or water systematically, nothing will grow, no matter what you try. Nothing except the more badass plants, but then you would have bigger problems than brown thumbs.
pvaldes 7y ago
Start with pots of perennials instead.
jschwartzi 7y ago
If you’re removing Himalayan blackberries you have to dig the rhizome out. It’s not enough to cut it down. Basically you take an adze or similar and cut in where the shoots are coming out of the ground. Then pull up on the shoots and a little ball will come up with them. Here in Washington State the Himalayan blackberries are an invasive species which grows all over the place. There are no natural predators here. If they become established then they kill everything around them including some trees. The only reliable way to remove them is by digging out the rhizome after cutting them to the ground. It can take several years to completely eliminate them from an area
- WalterBright 7y ago
  If you keep mowing them, they eventually starve and die. They cannot live off of the root ball forever. So far it looks like it takes two years for that to happen. Every time they throw out shoots it consumes the root ball's food. Cutting off the shoots before they can photosynthesize more food will do the trick. It also helps to cut them down after they flower and before their resources get sucked back into the root ball in the fall. For scotch broom, they'll also grow back if you cut them off at ground level. But I found if you cut them off right after they flower and start going to seed, they don't grow back. Apparently they throw so many resources into the flower they can't recover. We also have a huge problem with english ivy, which looks nice but kills the trees.
  - solstice 7y ago
    I've got nothing to add but I just wanted to remark that your description sounds incredibly gruesome.
jgraham 7y ago
I fully agree that a garden overtaken by brambles isn't a nice thing. But it's also not true that scrubland in general is some kind of death to nature. Plants like blackberries provide protection from predation and browsing heribovores. That means they're good habitats for many species of bird, and also that they're nature's nurseries for woodland, as young trees are protected from passing deer and other animals that would otherwise eat them.
tutanchamun 7y ago
Maybe you can rent a sod remover machine? I've seen those rented out for ~40 USD per day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Qd33NhflQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Qd33NhflQ With those machines it's more comfortable then the spade method [0], especially if the area is larger. After the sod is removed (you can put it on the compost with the bottom up to regain good soil for future uses) pour sand onto the area and mix it in. This will remove nutrients from the soil which is what many wildflowers like. Then throw out your wildflower seeds which you need to press on afterwards (there are tools, but as a cheap method you can just walk over them), so that the wind doesn't blow them away. In the end water them (also for the next 2-4 weeks). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQuffl5Engo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQuffl5Engo

surge 7y ago

I have a nice moss carpet in and little plants that bloom purple flowers in the spring. I think perfect grass myth is something that should be done away with, often times if you let the natural plants grow in they keep other weeds like dandelions out. I still mow, but I just let the grass grow where it needs to or places where nothing else is growing. I don't need to fertilize or harm the water drainage either.

chrisseaton 7y ago
I thought that the problem with moss is that if you have a dry spell it just dies away and flakes off leaving bare unprotected earth. Grass dies back but stays physically there for longer, holding the soil together, and then it's ready to recover more quickly afterward.
pvaldes 7y ago
> I have a nice moss carpet and little plants that bloom purple flowers in the spring Probably wild violets. Moss gardens are an interesting cultural thing. Begin Japanology has even a chapter dedicated to moss in japanese culture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up5jKSreGrA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up5jKSreGrA

jgraham 7y ago

As well as the advice elsewhere in the thread about reducing soil fertility to prevent grasses outcompeting wildflowers, it's worth noting that many species may take more than one year to establish. Annuals like — in the UK — poppies and cornflowers are more likely to grow the first summer after they're planted so can be used as attractive cover whilst perenials are taking seed.

nerdponx 7y ago

One issue with this in the northeast USA is the increasing prevalence and danger of ticks and tick-borne illnesses like Lyme disease (which I had once and do not want again). I haven't yet figured out how to reconcile my respect for that danger with my hatred of green lawns.

contingencies 7y ago

Not sure where you are based but have you considered getting in touch with your local environmental groups or speaking to native plant enthusiasts at plant nurseries, botanical gardens or gardening events? Typically there is a lot of local knowledge with respect to both exotic (eg. classic food producing) and local species and propagation techniques and people are very happy to share experiences. In Australia we have many cross-pollinating communities in this space including growers associations, gardening societies, permaculture, bush care, native plant groups, national parks associations, etc. Also, check out http://inaturalist.org/ http://inaturalist.org/ - challenge yourself to spot one new local species of plant, animal or fungi every day. AI and people will help you identify them. It's an awesomely gamified natural nerd-out.

jimkri 7y ago

Your comment reminded me of Michael Pollans book: Second nature. Its a really interesting book that talks about gardening, and also starts by talking about lawn care and how we are all made to believe that a trimmed lawn is the American way. https://www.amazon.com/Second-Nature-Gardeners-Michael-Pollan/dp/0802140114 https://www.amazon.com/Second-Nature-Gardeners-Michael-Polla...