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Email is a solved problem, and it's mysterious to me why a school system wouldn't just throw up a few servers and be done with it. Google can now data mine mill

Email is a solved problem, and it's mysterious to me why a school system wouldn't just throw up a few servers and be done with it. Google can now data mine millions of students for marketing purposes, and charge them for the benefit. I don't get it.

alaskamiller 18y ago
- Exchange was a AU$33 million contract and took four years - Gmail is $9.5 million and should be live by the end of 2008 - User storage will increase from 35 MB to 1 GB
- mynameishere 18y ago
  Yeah, I read that. The alternative would be: Hire a team of 1st rate sys admins, set up mail servers. Total cost: Maybe 1.5 million a year.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - helveticaman 18y ago
    Hire a team of 1st rate sys admins, From what I understand, looking for 1st rate sys admins is like looking for rockstar janitors.
    - olefoo 18y ago
      "I'd thank you, but system administration is a thankless job."
    - smanek 18y ago
      I don't really buy that. I know several great programmers who are now great sysadmins, or vice versa. Now, sysadmin may be a bit of a misnomer - sometimes sysadmins are given fancy titles such as 'network engineer', 'network architect', 'IT Manager', etc. They're all basically sysadmins. Good sysadmins do more than just image laptops. They are familiar with the software's architecture, so they can help scale it up to whatever proportions are needed. They almost certaintly are proficient perl/bash/python programmers as well.
      - gaius 18y ago
        Education is not going to pay for top-class engineering talent. They pretty much have to go for the lowest common denominator (Exchange, MCSE's are ten a penny) or outsource altogether.
        LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
        I personally know several excellent systems engineers who left the education system because the pay is so miserable.
    - maw 18y ago
      In my experience, there are several kinds of sysadmins. Many of them are little more than low-skilled button pressers, password resetters, and service restarters (although they may have lots of domain-specific knowledge learned by rote and not understood). The good ones, however, are more than competent programmers in their own right, can make quick and accurate diagnoses of tough problems and fix them, write their own tools, etc.
- gaius 18y ago
  Why is anyone surprised that a more recent product is faster and cheaper than an older one?
- Prrometheus 18y ago
  And I expect that many students will find Gmail more convenient. The simplicity of the interface, the fast loading time, and the ability to search your inbox instantly for attachments or contacts are all winners for Gmail.
PieSquared 18y ago
Because they're not techies and don't trust themselves to 'throw up a few servers' reliably? I dunno, that's my guess, since it seems they were looking for an email contract both with Outlook and now with Gmail.
paul 18y ago
How many 1.5 million user email systems have you operated? You don't just "throw up a few servers and be done with it."
- tdavis 18y ago
  Amen to that. Setting up mail infrastructures for a number of users with far fewer zeros is pain enough, I can't imagine 1.5mil And the AU was probably smart enough to do the research and find out that it would cost a whole lot more to purchase, build out, and maintain their own mail infrastructure. Maybe
  - hugh 18y ago
    And the AU was probably smart enough to do the research and find out that it would cost a whole lot more to purchase, build out, and maintain their own mail infrastructure. I've spent enough time in the hands of the NSW Department of Education to be able to tell you that any time they make the correct decision it's purely by accident.
neilc 18y ago
Why should the school system be in the business of running their own email servers? They don't generate their own power or purify their own water. The NSW Department of Education is probably not particularly skilled at running large IT infrastructure projects in-house -- nor should they be.

alaskamiller 18y ago

- Exchange was a AU$33 million contract and took four years - Gmail is $9.5 million and should be live by the end of 2008 - User storage will increase from 35 MB to 1 GB

mynameishere 18y ago
Yeah, I read that. The alternative would be: Hire a team of 1st rate sys admins, set up mail servers. Total cost: Maybe 1.5 million a year.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- helveticaman 18y ago
  Hire a team of 1st rate sys admins, From what I understand, looking for 1st rate sys admins is like looking for rockstar janitors.
  - olefoo 18y ago
    "I'd thank you, but system administration is a thankless job."
  - smanek 18y ago
    I don't really buy that. I know several great programmers who are now great sysadmins, or vice versa. Now, sysadmin may be a bit of a misnomer - sometimes sysadmins are given fancy titles such as 'network engineer', 'network architect', 'IT Manager', etc. They're all basically sysadmins. Good sysadmins do more than just image laptops. They are familiar with the software's architecture, so they can help scale it up to whatever proportions are needed. They almost certaintly are proficient perl/bash/python programmers as well.
    - gaius 18y ago
      Education is not going to pay for top-class engineering talent. They pretty much have to go for the lowest common denominator (Exchange, MCSE's are ten a penny) or outsource altogether.
      - LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
        I personally know several excellent systems engineers who left the education system because the pay is so miserable.
  - maw 18y ago
    In my experience, there are several kinds of sysadmins. Many of them are little more than low-skilled button pressers, password resetters, and service restarters (although they may have lots of domain-specific knowledge learned by rote and not understood). The good ones, however, are more than competent programmers in their own right, can make quick and accurate diagnoses of tough problems and fix them, write their own tools, etc.
gaius 18y ago
Why is anyone surprised that a more recent product is faster and cheaper than an older one?
Prrometheus 18y ago
And I expect that many students will find Gmail more convenient. The simplicity of the interface, the fast loading time, and the ability to search your inbox instantly for attachments or contacts are all winners for Gmail.

PieSquared 18y ago

Because they're not techies and don't trust themselves to 'throw up a few servers' reliably? I dunno, that's my guess, since it seems they were looking for an email contract both with Outlook and now with Gmail.

paul 18y ago

How many 1.5 million user email systems have you operated? You don't just "throw up a few servers and be done with it."

tdavis 18y ago
Amen to that. Setting up mail infrastructures for a number of users with far fewer zeros is pain enough, I can't imagine 1.5mil And the AU was probably smart enough to do the research and find out that it would cost a whole lot more to purchase, build out, and maintain their own mail infrastructure. Maybe
- hugh 18y ago
  And the AU was probably smart enough to do the research and find out that it would cost a whole lot more to purchase, build out, and maintain their own mail infrastructure. I've spent enough time in the hands of the NSW Department of Education to be able to tell you that any time they make the correct decision it's purely by accident.

neilc 18y ago

Why should the school system be in the business of running their own email servers? They don't generate their own power or purify their own water. The NSW Department of Education is probably not particularly skilled at running large IT infrastructure projects in-house -- nor should they be.