4 ms·

Yes, but doesn't Instagram by natural vote (based on views) also punish ugly people?

by somid3 7y ago

amitport 7y ago
Whataboutism doesn't help the conversation Edit in response to commenter: Whataboutism is a Meme? It a logical failure and when used it should be dismissed since it highjacks the conversation which is about what tiktok did (which is different from what insta and friends do).
- Broodleblot 7y ago
  Neither does dismissing things with a meme.
- fingerlocks 7y ago
  https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20whataboutism&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... In particular: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21854822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21854822
  - viraptor 7y ago
    "tiktok didn't say it, because..." is a counterexample. "Yes. Also at Instagram" is extra information. "Yes, but doesn't Instagram also ..." is still whataboutism. The whole point about whataboutism and how it got used politically is not that it's false. It's just used to distract and redirect conversation.
    - fingerlocks 7y ago
      Are you responding to the wrong person? I don’t have a horse in this fight. Only pointing out that finger pointing “whataboutism” isn’t popular here.
      - viraptor 7y ago
        I meant that the "in particular" link just doesn't apply to this situation.
Barrin92 7y ago
Yes. I guess it's no secret that the influencer economy is dominated by people who you could call conventionally attractive or people with lifestyles that young people would want to emulate. This is of course not news as people in entertainment have always set impossible (and rather shallow and conventional) beauty standards, but I think apps like tiktok with their engagement drive it even faster. You see a lot of discussions these days about dating behaviour on Tinder as well as people being obsessed with height in their profiles and whatnot, and we seriously have to wonder what this interaction through apps is doing to our social life.
viraptor 7y ago
Not getting upvotes naturally is different from being suppressed by the platform. Specifically tiktok seems to remove the opportunity for success early. Lower votes on Instagram mean just lower votes - smaller communities can still get organised around the "undesirable" profiles. You can't actually "punish" anyone on IG using voting, because as far as I can tell, you can't downvote.
jariel 7y ago
There's no 'but'. Companies that sell products for the disabled are not 'discriminated against' by the pretty and able-bodied who don't buy their products by virtue of the fact they don't want them. There are no hairs to be split here: discriminating against the disabled is reprehensible if not illegal, moderating against those who are 'poor or ugly' is at least reprehensible, and suppressing those who don't support the Chinese State is deeply problematic, though it might not be illegal, it should be, at least for users within non-Chinese jurisdictions wherein the can establish regulations concerning this. To boot, if it can be demonstrated that TikTok receives direct or indirect state aid, then they're violating WTO rules [1]. [1] https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/statra_e/statrad.htm https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/statra_e/statrad.htm
boomboomsubban 7y ago
A better analog is television, where such practices are completely ingrained in the system. This is also broadly true of their guidelines on political and sexual content as well, making it seem like TikTok was trying to become something like CBS.
- rasz 7y ago
  Not sure about that. Rednecks, hoarders, botched plastic surgery, fat people failing to lose weight, popping pimples and abscess. This is pretty much 1/3 of Discovery Channel lineup. Rest is pseudo history, alien abductions and gun shows.
  - pas 7y ago
    Do you think poor or "ugly" people think being a star of a freak show is the highest form of entertainment they ought to participate in?
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    All those people are on TikTok too, they just aren't broadcast to every phone. Buying extra channels would be like searching on other sites for TikTok videos.
globular-toast 7y ago
Life in general punishes ugly people.
- BostonFern 7y ago
  The faster you accept this and move on, the more time you'll have to focus on what else matters.
  - globular-toast 7y ago
    Indeed. Stoicism is the key to happiness.
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  Yes, I feel for them.

Yes, but doesn't Instagram by natural vote (based on views) also punish ugly people?

by somid3 7y ago

Yes, but doesn't Instagram by natural vote (based on views) also punish ugly people?

Whataboutism doesn't help the conversation Edit in response to commenter: Whataboutism is a Meme? It a logical failure and when used it should be dismissed since it highjacks the conversation which is about what tiktok did (which is different from what insta and friends do).

Broodleblot 7y ago
Neither does dismissing things with a meme.
fingerlocks 7y ago
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20whataboutism&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... In particular: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21854822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21854822
- viraptor 7y ago
  "tiktok didn't say it, because..." is a counterexample. "Yes. Also at Instagram" is extra information. "Yes, but doesn't Instagram also ..." is still whataboutism. The whole point about whataboutism and how it got used politically is not that it's false. It's just used to distract and redirect conversation.
  - fingerlocks 7y ago
    Are you responding to the wrong person? I don’t have a horse in this fight. Only pointing out that finger pointing “whataboutism” isn’t popular here.
    - viraptor 7y ago
      I meant that the "in particular" link just doesn't apply to this situation.

Barrin92 7y ago

Yes. I guess it's no secret that the influencer economy is dominated by people who you could call conventionally attractive or people with lifestyles that young people would want to emulate. This is of course not news as people in entertainment have always set impossible (and rather shallow and conventional) beauty standards, but I think apps like tiktok with their engagement drive it even faster. You see a lot of discussions these days about dating behaviour on Tinder as well as people being obsessed with height in their profiles and whatnot, and we seriously have to wonder what this interaction through apps is doing to our social life.

viraptor 7y ago

Not getting upvotes naturally is different from being suppressed by the platform. Specifically tiktok seems to remove the opportunity for success early. Lower votes on Instagram mean just lower votes - smaller communities can still get organised around the "undesirable" profiles. You can't actually "punish" anyone on IG using voting, because as far as I can tell, you can't downvote.

jariel 7y ago

There's no 'but'. Companies that sell products for the disabled are not 'discriminated against' by the pretty and able-bodied who don't buy their products by virtue of the fact they don't want them. There are no hairs to be split here: discriminating against the disabled is reprehensible if not illegal, moderating against those who are 'poor or ugly' is at least reprehensible, and suppressing those who don't support the Chinese State is deeply problematic, though it might not be illegal, it should be, at least for users within non-Chinese jurisdictions wherein the can establish regulations concerning this. To boot, if it can be demonstrated that TikTok receives direct or indirect state aid, then they're violating WTO rules [1]. [1] https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/statra_e/statrad.htm https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/statra_e/statrad.htm

boomboomsubban 7y ago

A better analog is television, where such practices are completely ingrained in the system. This is also broadly true of their guidelines on political and sexual content as well, making it seem like TikTok was trying to become something like CBS.

rasz 7y ago
Not sure about that. Rednecks, hoarders, botched plastic surgery, fat people failing to lose weight, popping pimples and abscess. This is pretty much 1/3 of Discovery Channel lineup. Rest is pseudo history, alien abductions and gun shows.
- pas 7y ago
  Do you think poor or "ugly" people think being a star of a freak show is the highest form of entertainment they ought to participate in?
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  All those people are on TikTok too, they just aren't broadcast to every phone. Buying extra channels would be like searching on other sites for TikTok videos.

globular-toast 7y ago

Life in general punishes ugly people.

BostonFern 7y ago
The faster you accept this and move on, the more time you'll have to focus on what else matters.
- globular-toast 7y ago
  Indeed. Stoicism is the key to happiness.
pinkfoot 7y ago
Yes, I feel for them.