5 ms·

What's the cheapest and quickest way to build an air ventilator for medical use?

7 points by floetic 7y ago

Alex3917 7y ago
Just buy one if you want one. There isn't a shortage. You can't use them on yourself though, nor can you use one without training.
- sigmaprimus 7y ago
  What exactly would require training? Is this not something that could be learned from a Youtube video? Or is learning to use one more like learning to play the violin?
  - gravypod 7y ago
    I'm not a doctor but I think there's multiple types of ventilation. There's invasive and non invasive ventilation. Invasive ventilation requires a tube inserted into you and it's very unpleasant. You are often sedated while this is done. Sedation requires monitoring and care to supply drugs, nutrition, cleaning, exercising and stretching muscles, and many more tasks. Noninvasive ventilation is like CPAP machines. They just cover your mouth. I don't know why you'd use one or another but there's likely a reason the sick are being sedated for covid-19
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - lcuff 7y ago
    As I said elsewhere, if you've got $15,000 you can buy one, with support for home use: https://helpmedicalsupplies.com/products/philips-respironics-trilogy-100-ventilator?variant=9981590077555&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpLfzBRCRARIsAHuj6qUQ3Ke3CQPyPeX5QNeM6B13ypF4r5cBbStVWW8EJhKdkv5algXDZWwaAoN3EALw_wcB https://helpmedicalsupplies.com/products/philips-respironics... If you were building one yourself, it would take some education. Google 'ventilator induced lung injury' and dive into the complexity. ...
    - sigmaprimus 7y ago
      Ahh ok, I confused a "Bag Valve Mask" similar to this one https://www.walmart.com/ip/LINE2design-Adult-BVM-Bag-Valve-Mask-Disposable-Resuscitators-One-Size/942193562 https://www.walmart.com/ip/LINE2design-Adult-BVM-Bag-Valve-M... With the respirator your describing which is a complicated expensive machine. There are several stories of people being kept alive for years using just bag valve masks. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2270178/Chinese-man-kept-alive-years-HOMEMADE-ventilator-family-squeeze-18-times-minute.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2270178/Chinese-m... This is a pdf about a project a MIT student worked on in 2010 that automates the squeezing of the bag. https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf
lcuff 7y ago
There are a lot of dimensions to this: The Pandemic Ventilator Project https://panvent.blogspot.com/ https://panvent.blogspot.com/ is taking this on. If you happen to have $15,000.00 lying around, buying one appears to be an option, although I bet the sell out quickly ... Building an iron lung out of wood, from Popular Mechanics magazine, Jan 1952, is also described here: https://books.google.com/books?id=tNwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA262&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=tNwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA262&sour.... Presumably a simple CPAP machine would help, but it 'aerosolizes' the virus, and makes it likely that any caregiver would be much more likely to get sick. Also, a CPAP machine doesn't give as much help as a real medical respirator as far as I can tell.

7 points by floetic 7y ago

Just buy one if you want one. There isn't a shortage. You can't use them on yourself though, nor can you use one without training.

sigmaprimus 7y ago
What exactly would require training? Is this not something that could be learned from a Youtube video? Or is learning to use one more like learning to play the violin?
- gravypod 7y ago
  I'm not a doctor but I think there's multiple types of ventilation. There's invasive and non invasive ventilation. Invasive ventilation requires a tube inserted into you and it's very unpleasant. You are often sedated while this is done. Sedation requires monitoring and care to supply drugs, nutrition, cleaning, exercising and stretching muscles, and many more tasks. Noninvasive ventilation is like CPAP machines. They just cover your mouth. I don't know why you'd use one or another but there's likely a reason the sick are being sedated for covid-19
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- lcuff 7y ago
  As I said elsewhere, if you've got $15,000 you can buy one, with support for home use: https://helpmedicalsupplies.com/products/philips-respironics-trilogy-100-ventilator?variant=9981590077555&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpLfzBRCRARIsAHuj6qUQ3Ke3CQPyPeX5QNeM6B13ypF4r5cBbStVWW8EJhKdkv5algXDZWwaAoN3EALw_wcB https://helpmedicalsupplies.com/products/philips-respironics... If you were building one yourself, it would take some education. Google 'ventilator induced lung injury' and dive into the complexity. ...
  - sigmaprimus 7y ago
    Ahh ok, I confused a "Bag Valve Mask" similar to this one https://www.walmart.com/ip/LINE2design-Adult-BVM-Bag-Valve-Mask-Disposable-Resuscitators-One-Size/942193562 https://www.walmart.com/ip/LINE2design-Adult-BVM-Bag-Valve-M... With the respirator your describing which is a complicated expensive machine. There are several stories of people being kept alive for years using just bag valve masks. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2270178/Chinese-man-kept-alive-years-HOMEMADE-ventilator-family-squeeze-18-times-minute.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2270178/Chinese-m... This is a pdf about a project a MIT student worked on in 2010 that automates the squeezing of the bag. https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf https://web.mit.edu/2.75/projects/DMD_2010_Al_Husseini.pdf

lcuff 7y ago

There are a lot of dimensions to this: The Pandemic Ventilator Project https://panvent.blogspot.com/ https://panvent.blogspot.com/ is taking this on. If you happen to have $15,000.00 lying around, buying one appears to be an option, although I bet the sell out quickly ... Building an iron lung out of wood, from Popular Mechanics magazine, Jan 1952, is also described here: https://books.google.com/books?id=tNwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA262&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=tNwDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA262&sour.... Presumably a simple CPAP machine would help, but it 'aerosolizes' the virus, and makes it likely that any caregiver would be much more likely to get sick. Also, a CPAP machine doesn't give as much help as a real medical respirator as far as I can tell.