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Honest question because I’ve seen a few comments stating this without totally clarifying: What does “lock everything down” mean? Are you suggesting people be lo

Honest question because I’ve seen a few comments stating this without totally clarifying: What does “lock everything down” mean? Are you suggesting people be locked up in their homes for weeks or a month? Or just shutting down non-essential businesses and buildings? Domestic travel restrictions? I legitimately am asking not to be snarky or confrontational, I’m just trying to get some clarity on what people mean when they say this.

mtmail 7y ago
You'd only be allowed outside to go to work or to the supermarket or pharmacy. All other shops closed. So factories and office buildings mostly stay open, just more reduced (home office as much as possible). Every country has different limits currently. China indeed locked doors (with tape) to check if people stayed it, food delivery only through windows.
xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
Yes, you're fairly accurate. It means cafes, non-essential retail stores, restaurants, etc. should shut down. People should only venture outside for groceries, medicine, or if their work demands it. Work that is non-essential should be put on hold. No non-essential travel, no going out for dinner, no casual shopping for goods, no hanging out or drinking with friends or family. Stay at home as often as you can, reasonably. You don't need a curfew, yet!
ceejayoz 7y ago
Spain has drones yelling at people to go home if they're spotted hanging out even in parks and whatnot. People should stay home unless they're getting groceries/medicine or going to work in a hospital or other piece of critical infrastructure.
- fuzzfactor 7y ago
  Looks like China had something like this over 42 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22218495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22218495 But there was not widespread interest here at the time. Edit: Who likes drones anyway?
davidw 7y ago
What Italy's doing seems pretty close to the most you can do in a western country. It just took them too long to do it. * Only stores open are grocery stores, pharmacies and some other essentials. * No going out except to go to work or go food shopping, or a brief walk in your neighborhood, on your own. * No weddings, funerals, church. * No travel outside your town, except for work. * Work from home if you can. * Some companies, like Ferrari, are simply shutting down for a bit - they're not a key element in anyone's supply chain.
DennisP 7y ago
Austria has banned gatherings of more than five people. Italy has closed all stores other than grocery and drug stores. All non-essential travel is banned. There's a short list of valid essentials, like taking care of aging parents; there are roadblocks, they'll make you fill out a form stating your purpose, it's a crime to lie about it, and they do sometimes check. In China, every place you go you get your temperature taken. Go in a building, get on a bus, they take your temperature. Show a fever, they take you to a dedicated fever center, where they check you for flu and bacterial infection. Come up clear on those, you're waiting four hours for a covid-19 test. Come up positive, you're there for the duration. You don't go home to your family because they've found 80% of transmissions are in family clusters.
- thathndude 7y ago
  Sounds worse than coronavirus.
  - DennisP 7y ago
    It's temporary, and it's not worse than mass unnecessary deaths because there weren't enough ventilators.
  - acdha 7y ago
    Would you say that to someone whose loved one died?
    - tedunangst 7y ago
      When it turns out auto deaths drop, does that mean the shutdown goes on for ever? What will you say to the family of the first auto crash victim after the shutdown is lifted?
      - rsfern 7y ago
        I do think it’s important to consider the pros and cons of any given policy, but I think this comparison is a bit extreme. There are about 35k car crash deaths in the US each year [0]. I’ve seen estimates for total infection rate all over the map. Conservatively (?) if 30% of the US population is eventually infected and the fatality rate is 1%, that’s 1 million people, and basically two orders of magnitude larger for a comparable (?) time period. If we don’t do more than we currently are to limit transmission, these figures don’t seem that implausible. Auto deaths are still a huge problem, but we can take more targeted action like improving transit coverage. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_...
mxcrossb 7y ago
I’d also like to see a lock down that doesn’t completely throw away our civil liberties. This is a serious issue, but I don’t want to be locked at home because we’re fighting a “war on viruses” twenty years from now
- mrfusion 7y ago
  I worry about this too. I can’t believe you’re being downvoted. I hate to say it but this whole thread gives me the vibe of democracy dying to thunderous applause.
  - freehunter 7y ago
    The downvotes are because millions of people will die because of this attitude.
    - __blockcipher__ 7y ago
      Totalitarian leaders always invoke the benefit of the masses when justifying their abuse. Personally, I believe very strongly in personal freedom, so I would absolutely rather have a million deaths than go into a state-mandated nationwide total lockdown. Anyway, the truth is it’s not an “either or” scenario. Hopefully there’s a sane middleground that we converge on :)
      - yibg 7y ago
        Would you sacrifice members of your family? A million is easier to justify when it's some nameless mass of people.
- zebraflask 7y ago
  Exactly! The "lock it all down" attitude has a heavy streak of unthinking authoritarianism to it that makes me very uncomfortable. Reasonable precautions? Of course. Going nuts and disrupting everyone's lives and businesses like that? I'd rather not.

mtmail 7y ago

You'd only be allowed outside to go to work or to the supermarket or pharmacy. All other shops closed. So factories and office buildings mostly stay open, just more reduced (home office as much as possible). Every country has different limits currently. China indeed locked doors (with tape) to check if people stayed it, food delivery only through windows.

xyzzy_plugh 7y ago

Yes, you're fairly accurate. It means cafes, non-essential retail stores, restaurants, etc. should shut down. People should only venture outside for groceries, medicine, or if their work demands it. Work that is non-essential should be put on hold. No non-essential travel, no going out for dinner, no casual shopping for goods, no hanging out or drinking with friends or family. Stay at home as often as you can, reasonably. You don't need a curfew, yet!

ceejayoz 7y ago

Spain has drones yelling at people to go home if they're spotted hanging out even in parks and whatnot. People should stay home unless they're getting groceries/medicine or going to work in a hospital or other piece of critical infrastructure.

fuzzfactor 7y ago
Looks like China had something like this over 42 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22218495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22218495 But there was not widespread interest here at the time. Edit: Who likes drones anyway?

davidw 7y ago

What Italy's doing seems pretty close to the most you can do in a western country. It just took them too long to do it. * Only stores open are grocery stores, pharmacies and some other essentials. * No going out except to go to work or go food shopping, or a brief walk in your neighborhood, on your own. * No weddings, funerals, church. * No travel outside your town, except for work. * Work from home if you can. * Some companies, like Ferrari, are simply shutting down for a bit - they're not a key element in anyone's supply chain.

DennisP 7y ago

Austria has banned gatherings of more than five people. Italy has closed all stores other than grocery and drug stores. All non-essential travel is banned. There's a short list of valid essentials, like taking care of aging parents; there are roadblocks, they'll make you fill out a form stating your purpose, it's a crime to lie about it, and they do sometimes check. In China, every place you go you get your temperature taken. Go in a building, get on a bus, they take your temperature. Show a fever, they take you to a dedicated fever center, where they check you for flu and bacterial infection. Come up clear on those, you're waiting four hours for a covid-19 test. Come up positive, you're there for the duration. You don't go home to your family because they've found 80% of transmissions are in family clusters.

thathndude 7y ago
Sounds worse than coronavirus.
- DennisP 7y ago
  It's temporary, and it's not worse than mass unnecessary deaths because there weren't enough ventilators.
- acdha 7y ago
  Would you say that to someone whose loved one died?
  - tedunangst 7y ago
    When it turns out auto deaths drop, does that mean the shutdown goes on for ever? What will you say to the family of the first auto crash victim after the shutdown is lifted?
    - rsfern 7y ago
      I do think it’s important to consider the pros and cons of any given policy, but I think this comparison is a bit extreme. There are about 35k car crash deaths in the US each year [0]. I’ve seen estimates for total infection rate all over the map. Conservatively (?) if 30% of the US population is eventually infected and the fatality rate is 1%, that’s 1 million people, and basically two orders of magnitude larger for a comparable (?) time period. If we don’t do more than we currently are to limit transmission, these figures don’t seem that implausible. Auto deaths are still a huge problem, but we can take more targeted action like improving transit coverage. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_...

mxcrossb 7y ago

I’d also like to see a lock down that doesn’t completely throw away our civil liberties. This is a serious issue, but I don’t want to be locked at home because we’re fighting a “war on viruses” twenty years from now

mrfusion 7y ago
I worry about this too. I can’t believe you’re being downvoted. I hate to say it but this whole thread gives me the vibe of democracy dying to thunderous applause.
- freehunter 7y ago
  The downvotes are because millions of people will die because of this attitude.
  - __blockcipher__ 7y ago
    Totalitarian leaders always invoke the benefit of the masses when justifying their abuse. Personally, I believe very strongly in personal freedom, so I would absolutely rather have a million deaths than go into a state-mandated nationwide total lockdown. Anyway, the truth is it’s not an “either or” scenario. Hopefully there’s a sane middleground that we converge on :)
    - yibg 7y ago
      Would you sacrifice members of your family? A million is easier to justify when it's some nameless mass of people.
zebraflask 7y ago
Exactly! The "lock it all down" attitude has a heavy streak of unthinking authoritarianism to it that makes me very uncomfortable. Reasonable precautions? Of course. Going nuts and disrupting everyone's lives and businesses like that? I'd rather not.