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Mortality rate in Italy was high only for people 65 and up. But lot more have been brought to hospitals for no real reason, once they were there they couldn't

by asjw 7y ago

Mortality rate in Italy was high only for people 65 and up. But lot more have been brought to hospitals for no real reason, once they were there they couldn't be sent home anymore In fact home confinement has increased a lot once they understood not everyone was in need of medical attention Hell, we even tested people with no symptoms at the beginning because they said they weren't feeling fine or one of their acquittance had flu in the previous week's That of course became immediately problematic for the healthcare system

easytiger 7y ago
That too is my understanding. Italy really screwed up by turning hospitals into disaster zones. Other countries are not letting people with symptoms near hospitals, even for testing, unless they have severe breathing difficulties
toyg 7y ago
> Mortality rate in Italy was high only for people 65 and up. Part of the reason mortality rates are so high among the elderly, though, is the fact that they are de-prioritized in cases when there is a scarcity of beds, ventilators, or other stuff. Doctors are forced to concentrate efforts on people with better survival chances, which are typically the youngest. > home confinement has increased a lot once they understood not everyone was in need of medical attention This is a double-edged sword though. My father has some contacts in the health service near Bergamo (he was a nurse himself etc etc), and he was told some cases don't even make it to the hospital - they go from cough to full-on pneumonia in less than two hours, and die on the ambulance. They now refer to late afternoon as the critical shift, when the stream of intakes spikes and ensuring they are all treated becomes extremely hard. A lot of these cases might have been saved had they been monitored full-time in a hospital.
- asjw 7y ago
  > they go from cough to full-on pneumonia in less than two hours, and die on the ambulance From cough to full pneumonia in few ours sounds made up But people with severe pneumonia that die in the ambulance is not rare Pneumonia still kills 13 thousands people every year in Italy Pneumonia has a very high mortality rate, the average for EU is 25/100 thousands while covid-19 is at 2/100 thousands The flu kills between 9 and 10 thousands people every year in Italy Most die home because nobody goes to the doctor for a flu usually If they did, even with light symptoms, we would have the same situation we are having now
  - easytiger 7y ago
    > Pneumonia still kills 13 thousands people every year in Italy In bad epidemic years it kills way more in Italy. 24k in 2017 epidemic You are absolutely right
- asjw 7y ago
  > Part of the reason mortality rates are so high among the elderly, though, is the fact that they are de-prioritized in cases when there is a scarcity of beds, ventilators, or other stuff. This is absolutely NOT TRUE They died because prior conditions made them weaker and a pneumonia at 84 is as deadly as a bullet in the head Nobody is left to die in Italy My parents have worked in the healthcare for 40 years before retiring, here we try to save everybody at the best of our abilities
- thu2111 7y ago
  There's no current scarcity of beds even in Lombardy. Their capacity is (at present) nearly used up, but it's not completely gone yet. And then there's the hospitals in the rest of the country.

by asjw 7y ago

easytiger 7y ago

That too is my understanding. Italy really screwed up by turning hospitals into disaster zones. Other countries are not letting people with symptoms near hospitals, even for testing, unless they have severe breathing difficulties

toyg 7y ago

> Mortality rate in Italy was high only for people 65 and up. Part of the reason mortality rates are so high among the elderly, though, is the fact that they are de-prioritized in cases when there is a scarcity of beds, ventilators, or other stuff. Doctors are forced to concentrate efforts on people with better survival chances, which are typically the youngest. > home confinement has increased a lot once they understood not everyone was in need of medical attention This is a double-edged sword though. My father has some contacts in the health service near Bergamo (he was a nurse himself etc etc), and he was told some cases don't even make it to the hospital - they go from cough to full-on pneumonia in less than two hours, and die on the ambulance. They now refer to late afternoon as the critical shift, when the stream of intakes spikes and ensuring they are all treated becomes extremely hard. A lot of these cases might have been saved had they been monitored full-time in a hospital.

asjw 7y ago
> they go from cough to full-on pneumonia in less than two hours, and die on the ambulance From cough to full pneumonia in few ours sounds made up But people with severe pneumonia that die in the ambulance is not rare Pneumonia still kills 13 thousands people every year in Italy Pneumonia has a very high mortality rate, the average for EU is 25/100 thousands while covid-19 is at 2/100 thousands The flu kills between 9 and 10 thousands people every year in Italy Most die home because nobody goes to the doctor for a flu usually If they did, even with light symptoms, we would have the same situation we are having now
- easytiger 7y ago
  > Pneumonia still kills 13 thousands people every year in Italy In bad epidemic years it kills way more in Italy. 24k in 2017 epidemic You are absolutely right
asjw 7y ago
> Part of the reason mortality rates are so high among the elderly, though, is the fact that they are de-prioritized in cases when there is a scarcity of beds, ventilators, or other stuff. This is absolutely NOT TRUE They died because prior conditions made them weaker and a pneumonia at 84 is as deadly as a bullet in the head Nobody is left to die in Italy My parents have worked in the healthcare for 40 years before retiring, here we try to save everybody at the best of our abilities
thu2111 7y ago
There's no current scarcity of beds even in Lombardy. Their capacity is (at present) nearly used up, but it's not completely gone yet. And then there's the hospitals in the rest of the country.