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But SK also published that location data online for all to see, something the US cannot do because HIPPA. People would make fun of those with the virus, such as

But SK also published that location data online for all to see, something the US cannot do because HIPPA. People would make fun of those with the virus, such as one man who was tracked to a hotel associated with prostitution.

vinniejames 7y ago
Public safety aught to trump HIPPA
- gerdesj 7y ago
  No it should not. People are a bit tricksy over this thing and a lynch mob is not out of the question. That way lies murder.
- hk__2 7y ago
  HIPPA is about public safety.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  So should we publish lists of everyone who is HIV+ in our cities?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- vinniejames 7y ago
  That didn't take long... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22613426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22613426
whatshisface 7y ago
How did that help, and was it necessary?
- yongjik 7y ago
  It works roughly like this: Patient number #xxx, diagnosed today. Last Monday, he used a taxi (11:30-12:00) to visit McDonalds next to Hongdae station (12:00-12:50) and then walked to Woori bank nearby (1:30-2:00) and used another taxi to go home. Next Tuesday... blah blah... And then you find out the taxi drivers, all the McDonalds workers, and everybody who used McDonalds and the bank at the same time, and tell them to go self-quarantine for two weeks. And also test them. The idea is basically catch all the virus before it has a chance to run into more people. It does help that Koreans carry cell phones and use credit cards everywhere. (And, yes it does raise the question about privacy - which is something we should revisit once the emergency is over.)
  - bobbylarrybobby 7y ago
    History teaches that once you give up rights in time of emergency, it is very, very difficult to get them back. Americans are still not back to their pre-9/11 rights to privacy and at this point will likely never will be. Coronavirus will eventually fade away (even if it's a long, bloody road to get to that point), but the loss of rights will persist for generations.
    - yongjik 7y ago
      That's an American thinking. The Korean thinking is that we never gave up our rights - our country was born without one, liberated by greater powers, split into half, ruled by dictators. We won our rights with fight, and because it's ours, and our government serves us, we can let them use our power when the society needs it, like a master trusting the key to its faithful servant. And if they do not relinquish it later, no problem, we'll fight and get them back again.
harmmonica 7y ago
Speaking 100% from a point of ignorance, how far do you need to "zoom out" to be in compliance with HIPPA? Can the name of the hospitals treating cases be disclosed? The city where the hospital is located? I noticed that many county websites are showing the origin of the case, whether it was travel-related/community spread/etc.. If you could have that level of granularity, maybe you can have some geographic detail (hospital location, for instance) so that people could at least get a better feel for how close to home this is, encouraging them to socially distance.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  I remember health insurance companies were capturing this data during H1N1 (voluntary reporting from providers), but of course the data was limited by insurance company and voluntary reporting. So there is some leniency over aggregated data (remember the cost and quality calculators from the mid-2000s?). I wonder what the CDC requires providers to report?
- protomyth 7y ago
  This is a good starting point https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/special-topics/de-identification/index.html https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/special-...
muzani 7y ago
Malaysia publishes data too: https://newslab.malaysiakini.com/covid-19/en https://newslab.malaysiakini.com/covid-19/en This didn't help much. It created a false sense of security when it appeared that the first 21 cases were contained. People went to gatherings (which caused the recent spike). It also doesn't help if you know what hotels are infected; plenty of other spots can be infected as well. Case 26 was blamed as "patient zero" but he had actually shown no symptoms 6 weeks after returning from China. He got infected elsewhere. But the media places unfair judgement on him.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> something the US cannot do because HIPPA [sic] This is fine! We don't need to publish who is sick. (We shouldn't.) Just aggregated geographic statistics. HIPAA does not interfere with that.
- solveit 7y ago
  SK published (and is publishing) logs of every establishment the infected people had been to with timestamps accurate to the minute. Like, "this particular Burger King branch from 2:23 to 2:55". For the entire two-week period in which the infected may be infectious. This allowed/forced said establishments to shut down for a day or so while they disinfected every surface. The USA most certainly cannot do this, and not just because of HIPAA. Neither the bureaucratic will nor capability is there.
  - thu2111 7y ago
    NSA logs cell metadata and many other sources to build tracking databases, so the capability is there. But it's not supposed to exist, theoretically, so can't really be openly used in the way Taiwan and SK have been doing it.
DennisP 7y ago
The US could do it with one emergency bill. Mockery is better than "widespread ventilator shortages." I hope public identifying information isn't strictly necessary for the South Korean model but let's keep this in perspective. The alternatives to SK's privacy invasions are total lockdown, or mass unnecessary death.
rumanator 7y ago
> People would make fun of those with the virus I take humour over funerals any day.

vinniejames 7y ago

Public safety aught to trump HIPPA

gerdesj 7y ago
No it should not. People are a bit tricksy over this thing and a lynch mob is not out of the question. That way lies murder.
hk__2 7y ago
HIPPA is about public safety.
djsumdog 7y ago
So should we publish lists of everyone who is HIV+ in our cities?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
vinniejames 7y ago
That didn't take long... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22613426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22613426

whatshisface 7y ago

How did that help, and was it necessary?

yongjik 7y ago
It works roughly like this: Patient number #xxx, diagnosed today. Last Monday, he used a taxi (11:30-12:00) to visit McDonalds next to Hongdae station (12:00-12:50) and then walked to Woori bank nearby (1:30-2:00) and used another taxi to go home. Next Tuesday... blah blah... And then you find out the taxi drivers, all the McDonalds workers, and everybody who used McDonalds and the bank at the same time, and tell them to go self-quarantine for two weeks. And also test them. The idea is basically catch all the virus before it has a chance to run into more people. It does help that Koreans carry cell phones and use credit cards everywhere. (And, yes it does raise the question about privacy - which is something we should revisit once the emergency is over.)
- bobbylarrybobby 7y ago
  History teaches that once you give up rights in time of emergency, it is very, very difficult to get them back. Americans are still not back to their pre-9/11 rights to privacy and at this point will likely never will be. Coronavirus will eventually fade away (even if it's a long, bloody road to get to that point), but the loss of rights will persist for generations.
  - yongjik 7y ago
    That's an American thinking. The Korean thinking is that we never gave up our rights - our country was born without one, liberated by greater powers, split into half, ruled by dictators. We won our rights with fight, and because it's ours, and our government serves us, we can let them use our power when the society needs it, like a master trusting the key to its faithful servant. And if they do not relinquish it later, no problem, we'll fight and get them back again.

harmmonica 7y ago

Speaking 100% from a point of ignorance, how far do you need to "zoom out" to be in compliance with HIPPA? Can the name of the hospitals treating cases be disclosed? The city where the hospital is located? I noticed that many county websites are showing the origin of the case, whether it was travel-related/community spread/etc.. If you could have that level of granularity, maybe you can have some geographic detail (hospital location, for instance) so that people could at least get a better feel for how close to home this is, encouraging them to socially distance.

djsumdog 7y ago
I remember health insurance companies were capturing this data during H1N1 (voluntary reporting from providers), but of course the data was limited by insurance company and voluntary reporting. So there is some leniency over aggregated data (remember the cost and quality calculators from the mid-2000s?). I wonder what the CDC requires providers to report?
protomyth 7y ago
This is a good starting point https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/special-topics/de-identification/index.html https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/privacy/special-...

muzani 7y ago

Malaysia publishes data too: https://newslab.malaysiakini.com/covid-19/en https://newslab.malaysiakini.com/covid-19/en This didn't help much. It created a false sense of security when it appeared that the first 21 cases were contained. People went to gatherings (which caused the recent spike). It also doesn't help if you know what hotels are infected; plenty of other spots can be infected as well. Case 26 was blamed as "patient zero" but he had actually shown no symptoms 6 weeks after returning from China. He got infected elsewhere. But the media places unfair judgement on him.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> something the US cannot do because HIPPA [sic] This is fine! We don't need to publish who is sick. (We shouldn't.) Just aggregated geographic statistics. HIPAA does not interfere with that.

solveit 7y ago
SK published (and is publishing) logs of every establishment the infected people had been to with timestamps accurate to the minute. Like, "this particular Burger King branch from 2:23 to 2:55". For the entire two-week period in which the infected may be infectious. This allowed/forced said establishments to shut down for a day or so while they disinfected every surface. The USA most certainly cannot do this, and not just because of HIPAA. Neither the bureaucratic will nor capability is there.
- thu2111 7y ago
  NSA logs cell metadata and many other sources to build tracking databases, so the capability is there. But it's not supposed to exist, theoretically, so can't really be openly used in the way Taiwan and SK have been doing it.

DennisP 7y ago

The US could do it with one emergency bill. Mockery is better than "widespread ventilator shortages." I hope public identifying information isn't strictly necessary for the South Korean model but let's keep this in perspective. The alternatives to SK's privacy invasions are total lockdown, or mass unnecessary death.

rumanator 7y ago

> People would make fun of those with the virus I take humour over funerals any day.