4 ms·

I doubt that there are going to be a bunch of ventilators that you can just order on Alibaba.

jacquesm 7y ago
Take your pick: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/emergency-ventilator.html https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/emergency-ventilator.html
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  You can order. But will they arrive?
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    That is a good question. I suppose there was some stock of these before the crisis but those are very likely all depleted. Still, with this many suppliers it might not hurt to ask. Dutch proverb: "If you don't shoot you will certainly miss".
    - microcolonel 7y ago
      For what it's worth, China has literally turned around pending export medical supplies, and banned certain exports. Ventilators seem like they would be on that list, if it has not been withdrawn yet.
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      > Dutch proverb: "If you don't shoot you will certainly miss". Huh. The idea is certainly around in the US, but I'm kind of surprised I can't think of a matching proverb. We have a very close match, but it's considered a witty quote from a particular person (no consensus on who) -- "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take". There's also something along the lines of "you can't get what you don't ask for". There's also an individually attributed version of this: "if you don't ask, you don't get". I had to look this up. There is no really common version. And of course, there's "ninety percent of success is showing up". Again this is attributed -- quote trackers seem to agree that it should be "80%", not "90%". But this one is common enough that I could see it becoming a proverb eventually. On the other hand, this has gone somewhat afield from "if you don't shoot, you won't hit".
      - stormtroper1721 7y ago
        "You miss 100% of the shots that you don't take" is one
        forkexec 7y ago
        So what about the lawsuits when you throw informed consent out the window to try unproven, unfit products on patients and they die because of failed products that weren't FDA cleared or approved? How many good doctors and hospitals have to close up in order to gamble with patient's lives on untested machines?
        lozaning 7y ago
        Perfect is the enemy of good. If it comes down to no equipment for me, or untested alpha versions, tell me where to sign my name to indemnify the hospital against its risk. Who said that this consent had to be uninformed?
      - BurningFrog 7y ago
        "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" was made famous by Wayne Gretzky, who said he heard it from an old coach. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/381542/what-was-the-first-use-of-the-metaphor-you-miss-100-of-the-shots-you-dont-tak https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/381542/what-was-...
        thaumasiotes 7y ago
        Ah, the answer there provides a more traditional equivalent: nothing ventured, nothing gained.
      - OJFord 7y ago
        'got to be in it to win it' is similar w.r.t. winnable (incl. metaphorically) things. I think it might be an old national (UK) lottery advertising slogan, but it's used generally and proverbially here anyway.
- ma2rten 7y ago
  Fair enough, but I checked the first one. They were already certified by western agencies.
- forkexec 7y ago
  And how many of them are real products, already manufactured and FDA-approved?
  - IanDrake 7y ago
    At the point when hospitals run out of ventilators, no one denied a ventilator is going to care about FDA approval.
    - forkexec 7y ago
      "Denied?" There aren't enough ICU beds or staff to worry about using a Home Depot shop vac as a ventilator yet. A million more beds are needed in US but they won't be built because the ACoE doesn't have a mandate, manpower or the resources to get it done in a few weeks.
- projektfu 7y ago
  First, maybe order veterinary ventilators already existing in the US. And ask veterinary hospitals if you can use theirs. Alibaba has a lot of listings but most are middlemen. The underlying factory may or may not be able to produce what you want. China probably has a surplus of ventilators now. Are our countries too proud to ask?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Take your pick: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/emergency-ventilator.html https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/emergency-ventilator.html

BurningFrog 7y ago
You can order. But will they arrive?
- jacquesm 7y ago
  That is a good question. I suppose there was some stock of these before the crisis but those are very likely all depleted. Still, with this many suppliers it might not hurt to ask. Dutch proverb: "If you don't shoot you will certainly miss".
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    For what it's worth, China has literally turned around pending export medical supplies, and banned certain exports. Ventilators seem like they would be on that list, if it has not been withdrawn yet.
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    > Dutch proverb: "If you don't shoot you will certainly miss". Huh. The idea is certainly around in the US, but I'm kind of surprised I can't think of a matching proverb. We have a very close match, but it's considered a witty quote from a particular person (no consensus on who) -- "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take". There's also something along the lines of "you can't get what you don't ask for". There's also an individually attributed version of this: "if you don't ask, you don't get". I had to look this up. There is no really common version. And of course, there's "ninety percent of success is showing up". Again this is attributed -- quote trackers seem to agree that it should be "80%", not "90%". But this one is common enough that I could see it becoming a proverb eventually. On the other hand, this has gone somewhat afield from "if you don't shoot, you won't hit".
    - stormtroper1721 7y ago
      "You miss 100% of the shots that you don't take" is one
      - forkexec 7y ago
        So what about the lawsuits when you throw informed consent out the window to try unproven, unfit products on patients and they die because of failed products that weren't FDA cleared or approved? How many good doctors and hospitals have to close up in order to gamble with patient's lives on untested machines?
        lozaning 7y ago
        Perfect is the enemy of good. If it comes down to no equipment for me, or untested alpha versions, tell me where to sign my name to indemnify the hospital against its risk. Who said that this consent had to be uninformed?
    - BurningFrog 7y ago
      "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" was made famous by Wayne Gretzky, who said he heard it from an old coach. https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/381542/what-was-the-first-use-of-the-metaphor-you-miss-100-of-the-shots-you-dont-tak https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/381542/what-was-...
      - thaumasiotes 7y ago
        Ah, the answer there provides a more traditional equivalent: nothing ventured, nothing gained.
    - OJFord 7y ago
      'got to be in it to win it' is similar w.r.t. winnable (incl. metaphorically) things. I think it might be an old national (UK) lottery advertising slogan, but it's used generally and proverbially here anyway.
ma2rten 7y ago
Fair enough, but I checked the first one. They were already certified by western agencies.
forkexec 7y ago
And how many of them are real products, already manufactured and FDA-approved?
- IanDrake 7y ago
  At the point when hospitals run out of ventilators, no one denied a ventilator is going to care about FDA approval.
  - forkexec 7y ago
    "Denied?" There aren't enough ICU beds or staff to worry about using a Home Depot shop vac as a ventilator yet. A million more beds are needed in US but they won't be built because the ACoE doesn't have a mandate, manpower or the resources to get it done in a few weeks.
projektfu 7y ago
First, maybe order veterinary ventilators already existing in the US. And ask veterinary hospitals if you can use theirs. Alibaba has a lot of listings but most are middlemen. The underlying factory may or may not be able to produce what you want. China probably has a surplus of ventilators now. Are our countries too proud to ask?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]