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> through very little fault of his own https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/

> through very little fault of his own https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/ Get out of here with this. We had expert teams and processes in place to combat the possibility of this exact thing and his administration fired them without any replacement. The virus existing is not his fault, but nearly all of the national consequences rest directly at his feet.

richk449 7y ago
I worded it that way because I think that even if he had done everything right, his re-election would still be in trouble because of factors outside of his control.
- happierlook 7y ago
  The job is literally to be prepared for the future on behalf of the country. If you take active steps that make us less prepared for something and we therefore suffer greater consequences when it happens, I have a really hard time describing that as being something outside of your control. Under normal circumstances, an exigent crisis such as war would make a President significantly more likely to be re-elected. He tried to start a war with Iran not long ago for this very reason.
  - richk449 7y ago
    If you want to argue about Trump, please find someone else to do it with (or somewhere else to do it). My comment was not about Trump's response, and I regret even including mention of him, since that one offhand comment has generated uninteresting political arguments, without anybody engaging with what I was actually writing about.
snopie 7y ago
Snopes stopped being a reliable source a long time ago, if they ever were. They give one-sided versions for obviously political reasons.
TMWNN 7y ago
>Get out of here with this. We had expert teams and processes in place to combat the possibility of this exact thing and his administration fired them without any replacement. Ah yes, yet another person who looked at the Snopes piece's headline and nothing else. One would think reading only that, or the Twitter thread (!) the piece is based on, that to save money (or because the Trump administration hates science, or something) the entire "US Pandemic Response Team" agency was eliminated and everyone in a large DC office building was fired. Actually reading the contemporary NBC News https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tom-bossert-trump-s-homeland-security-adviser-resign-n864321 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tom-bossert-t... and Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/10/top-white-house-official-in-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/0... articles the Snopes piece cites in the body, they seem to have been a handful of people in one team in the National Security Council hierarchy, that the new National Security Advisor reassigned to related agencies, as part of a desire to have his own hierarchical structure. Ziemer resigned because he wanted to keep his team the way it was. COVID19 was not a surprise; that is, it was known to exist in China some time before the first cases appeared in the US. It is not unreasonable for a government to assemble a team to respond to something like a pandemic as needed, as opposed to having people dedicated solely to the purpose and nothing else. And that's exactly what the US did, implementing the ban on non-American travelers who'd been to China in late January, among other things. You may or may not agree with this. But please don't claim that this is somehow prima facie proof of the Trump administration's malfeasance/evilness. PS - No, Trump did not "cut the CDC budget" either. https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104 https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104
- grey-area 7y ago
  No, Trump did not "cut the CDC budget" either. No, he only proposed cutting the CDC budget. Luckily, saner minds prevailed.
  - TMWNN 7y ago
    >No, he only proposed cutting the CDC budget. Luckily, saner minds prevailed. Presidents do not pass the budget; Congress does, under the Constitution. The annual President-proposed budget is just that, a starting point from which to negotiate from. Both the House (currently controlled by Democrats) and Senate (Republicans) have to pass it. If you criticize the president for starting out with a proposal for cutting the CDC budget (and for most other agencies), why not also praise him for signing the final budget that raised its budget?

richk449 7y ago

I worded it that way because I think that even if he had done everything right, his re-election would still be in trouble because of factors outside of his control.

happierlook 7y ago
The job is literally to be prepared for the future on behalf of the country. If you take active steps that make us less prepared for something and we therefore suffer greater consequences when it happens, I have a really hard time describing that as being something outside of your control. Under normal circumstances, an exigent crisis such as war would make a President significantly more likely to be re-elected. He tried to start a war with Iran not long ago for this very reason.
- richk449 7y ago
  If you want to argue about Trump, please find someone else to do it with (or somewhere else to do it). My comment was not about Trump's response, and I regret even including mention of him, since that one offhand comment has generated uninteresting political arguments, without anybody engaging with what I was actually writing about.

snopie 7y ago

Snopes stopped being a reliable source a long time ago, if they ever were. They give one-sided versions for obviously political reasons.

TMWNN 7y ago

>Get out of here with this. We had expert teams and processes in place to combat the possibility of this exact thing and his administration fired them without any replacement. Ah yes, yet another person who looked at the Snopes piece's headline and nothing else. One would think reading only that, or the Twitter thread (!) the piece is based on, that to save money (or because the Trump administration hates science, or something) the entire "US Pandemic Response Team" agency was eliminated and everyone in a large DC office building was fired. Actually reading the contemporary NBC News https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tom-bossert-trump-s-homeland-security-adviser-resign-n864321 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tom-bossert-t... and Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/05/10/top-white-house-official-in-charge-of-pandemic-response-exits-abruptly/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/0... articles the Snopes piece cites in the body, they seem to have been a handful of people in one team in the National Security Council hierarchy, that the new National Security Advisor reassigned to related agencies, as part of a desire to have his own hierarchical structure. Ziemer resigned because he wanted to keep his team the way it was. COVID19 was not a surprise; that is, it was known to exist in China some time before the first cases appeared in the US. It is not unreasonable for a government to assemble a team to respond to something like a pandemic as needed, as opposed to having people dedicated solely to the purpose and nothing else. And that's exactly what the US did, implementing the ban on non-American travelers who'd been to China in late January, among other things. You may or may not agree with this. But please don't claim that this is somehow prima facie proof of the Trump administration's malfeasance/evilness. PS - No, Trump did not "cut the CDC budget" either. https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104 https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104

grey-area 7y ago
No, Trump did not "cut the CDC budget" either. No, he only proposed cutting the CDC budget. Luckily, saner minds prevailed.
- TMWNN 7y ago
  >No, he only proposed cutting the CDC budget. Luckily, saner minds prevailed. Presidents do not pass the budget; Congress does, under the Constitution. The annual President-proposed budget is just that, a starting point from which to negotiate from. Both the House (currently controlled by Democrats) and Senate (Republicans) have to pass it. If you criticize the president for starting out with a proposal for cutting the CDC budget (and for most other agencies), why not also praise him for signing the final budget that raised its budget?