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> But our social and media users are a group marked by narrow and limited digital media use and a lack of data literacy. They are likely to come from some of th

> But our social and media users are a group marked by narrow and limited digital media use and a lack of data literacy. They are likely to come from some of the poorest households in the country. I see this when I open Youtube in a private Window. My feed is full of videos about movies, software engineering, history, ... I just do not get what the most popular videos are about. With TV there was a similar drift toward low quality content. But, there was a limit how low it could go and at prime time they needed to cater to everybody, including the middle class. With Youtube and social media, you can live in your own bubble of low quality content. Facebook is just the same but much worse. Many young people are as close to be digital natives as I am of being an airplane pilot for flying frequently.

wuunderbar 7y ago
By what measure are you determining what YouTube content low quality and what is not? I just opened it up in incognito mode (IP located in California) and I see the first 5 as: - Eminem music video - Gordon Ramsey - Jimmy Kimmel - 4 levels of onion rings - A couple building a shipping container home Nothing about these seems low-quality at all. Is it just because it's not that educational like software engineering and history?
- martin_a 7y ago
  Well, for Germany it's normally some rap songs (where views seem to be bought to push unknown artists), turkish soap operas and low quality circle-jerk clickbait where some Youtubers comment on what other Youtubers did. It's really a shame. These days there's some Covid 19 coverage in there, but that only slightly makes it better.
- harikb 7y ago
  I am not sure if incognito will help you avoid Geo and other non-cookie based personalization
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    I don't think there is non-cookie based personalization, just geo localization. Removing cookies makes this obvious: there isn't even a crumb of my recommended videos. Which makes sense because a list of trending content is a bit nonsensical without a region in mind, e.g. language.
- fock 7y ago
  In Europe, I get: a youtuber telling you about his "battle" with some other youtuber and how he converted him "back to islam, inshallah" (on tape obviously). Both people seem to have a problem with some body parts near their crotch, judging from their gestures. The same "environment" produced a mob of dozens of people, attacking each other in Berlin in broad daylight, because one guy claimed "Don't come to Berlin, it's my territory, you, who dared to tarnish my mothers honor in your vid". Basically it's tribalism 101 spread to thousands of people of general low education at an amazing rate. And thanks to the bubbles, we all know about, knowbody challenges this...
  - tallyhotallyho 7y ago
    Yes, people seem to be taking against these mediums now that they are exposing the pitfalls of their own political delusions. Turns out multiculturalism was stupid thing to impose upon a country. Turns out immigration has negative effects. Turns out the "democratisation" of media means those people you thought you could ignore can not be ignored. Must be the website! stop it! regulate the website!
- walshemj 7y ago
  When I accidently went to YouTube with no history a while back it was all those out there ultra right wing (by American stdards as well ) conspiracy crap
jccalhoun 7y ago
I agree with other commenters about "low quality content" being subjective. However, on a couple subreddits I will sometimes skim I often see tons of people posting links to videos that are just someone's take on a current event or just summarizing it. I have largely given up clicking on those because most of them can be summarized in 2-3 sentences much more quickly than watching some video and yet, on the times I actually do click on one of those links the video will have tens of thousands of views. Who is watching this stuff? I understand that the creators are trying to make a living but I don't understand why people watch the videos when they could learn the same amount of information much more quickly by reading it.
- knzhou 7y ago
  Yeah, there's an annoying genre of videos that's just a dude in his basement talking to his webcam for an hour. Not only is the format low information density, but you can't even extract the key bits by skimming through it.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    > but you can't even extract the key bits by skimming through it. I generally avoid that format of video entirely, but using the subtitles as a searchable index helps a lot.
  - jacobolus 7y ago
    This is also 99% of “podcasts”. Except instead of 1 dude in a basement, it’s usually a few people on a conference call.
  - 6nf 7y ago
    This is all Youtube's doing. Youtube rewards channels that upload a full video every day, and for individual creators the only way to do that is to talk into a camera for 30 minutes and just upload it.
- WWLink 7y ago
  Ugh I know exactly what you mean! A lot of websites have been slowly morphing into "watch this 20 minute video of us explaining to you something that could be documented on 1 piece of paper"
crocodiletears 7y ago
Keep in mind that when you open YouTube from a blank history, you're not seeing what most people see when they're on youtube. In fact, due to their personalization algorithm, I doubt that there really is such a thing as a typical YouTube user. A quick web search suggests that there are 2 billion MAU on the platform, with 73% of US adults using it (roughly 180 million people) [0]. Opening YouTube from a private tab in the Midwestern US, I see a range of recommended videos published over the past five years, with about 1-100 million views each, most of them between 20 and fifty million views. This content is all largely inoffensive, clickbaity, and in-line with what you might expect from a publication like Buzzfeed, or viral content in the 'tens. These videos aren't the fastest growing, in fact it given their view:age ratio they've mostly peaked, so they were likely selected to appeal to the broadest swathe of the population possible, in order to kickstart user engagement. Even assuming this content is only seen by Americans, the most popular videos presented have only been seen by fewer than half the platform's users. Interspersed among the cute animal videos, the movie ads, the top n lists, and late-night TV compilations, there seems to be a selection of niche content which could be used to begin sorting you onto different user buckets. Sports videos, gaming channels, indie animated shorts, youtube poops, some Spanish content, etc. The trending tab seems even less representative of the userbase. Its engagement is in the hundreds of thousands, to maybe a couple million over the course of a few days, with notable exceptions being a few music videos, and a recent episode of JRE. I work with a lot of technically and "high culturally" illiterate people. A few that would be truly considered lowest common denominator. Not too many of them are clamoring to see the latest music video, or gushing over that Minions movie ad that YouTube thinks a new user might want to see. Nobody really gets on YouTube just to watch top ten cute animal videos unless they're really high. Videogame videos? Certainly, but there's a huge variety in those. A lot of using YouTube to learn new skills, or view product reviews. Not everybody's after the same kind of high brow content in niche x. In fact, they're likely after relevant, intelligent content that you don't even consider exists assuming they're older than 17. There's just too much variety in the population for that. But sooner or later everybody watches a movie trailer, or a music video, or a fall compilation, or a top ten list that fits their fancy. Their typical view? Not likely. But it's something everyone will probably watch. So that's what YouTube's going to show an unknown user. If you're disheartened by what you see, don't be. Just because everybody watches schlock doesn't mean nobody's watching in-depth, intelligent content. I'd wager most are. [0] https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ [1] https://www.reference.com/world-view/many-adults-live-usa-b830ecdfb6047660 https://www.reference.com/world-view/many-adults-live-usa-b8...
b0rsuk 7y ago
I think computers used to be cool but are no longer perceived as such.
- krapp 7y ago
  I don't think computers have ever really been cool, except to a niche demographic. Prior to the ascendancy of the web, computers were the exclusive domain of nerds (who, as far as the mainstream was concerned, were very much uncool) and business people (eternally uncool.) After the web, the web was what was cool, but computers (and their use) just became mainstream.
  - vikramkr 7y ago
    I think business people were definitely cool into he 80s. I wasnt there but the whole wolf of wall street Reaganomics thing was definitely cool even if it was destructive. And startup founders were definitely cool for a bit until we started hating tech. Rich people making money is almost always cool in American culture, whether it's startups or wall street or mob bosses
    - krapp 7y ago
      Maybe, I barely remember the 80s, so you might have a point. But even so, the cool business people tended to be the rich CEOs and Wall Street types (and I remember plenty of those as villains as well, think OCP from RoboCop) but still, they weren't the ones using the computers.
    - asveikau 7y ago
      Bill Gates was quite rich and ordinary people used to talk about him a lot. He was never seen as cool in that time. He's had a bit of a reputation increase since then, part of it is probably his philanthropy, but also nerdy people are much more accepted and celebrated these days.
      - b0rsuk 7y ago
        Really? I think it's the opposite. It's golden era for celebrities. You have fb, igram, yt and other platforms. You no longer need to be invited to TV or star in a movie. You can trivially publish a blog. Charisma never had as many opportunities as today. Trump, Boris Johnson - many people know they're compulsive liars and still don't care. Respect for academics is probably at its lowest. Science fiction was transformed from a popular science gateway drug to a source of colorful explosions and action movies.

wuunderbar 7y ago

By what measure are you determining what YouTube content low quality and what is not? I just opened it up in incognito mode (IP located in California) and I see the first 5 as: - Eminem music video - Gordon Ramsey - Jimmy Kimmel - 4 levels of onion rings - A couple building a shipping container home Nothing about these seems low-quality at all. Is it just because it's not that educational like software engineering and history?

martin_a 7y ago
Well, for Germany it's normally some rap songs (where views seem to be bought to push unknown artists), turkish soap operas and low quality circle-jerk clickbait where some Youtubers comment on what other Youtubers did. It's really a shame. These days there's some Covid 19 coverage in there, but that only slightly makes it better.
harikb 7y ago
I am not sure if incognito will help you avoid Geo and other non-cookie based personalization
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  I don't think there is non-cookie based personalization, just geo localization. Removing cookies makes this obvious: there isn't even a crumb of my recommended videos. Which makes sense because a list of trending content is a bit nonsensical without a region in mind, e.g. language.
fock 7y ago
In Europe, I get: a youtuber telling you about his "battle" with some other youtuber and how he converted him "back to islam, inshallah" (on tape obviously). Both people seem to have a problem with some body parts near their crotch, judging from their gestures. The same "environment" produced a mob of dozens of people, attacking each other in Berlin in broad daylight, because one guy claimed "Don't come to Berlin, it's my territory, you, who dared to tarnish my mothers honor in your vid". Basically it's tribalism 101 spread to thousands of people of general low education at an amazing rate. And thanks to the bubbles, we all know about, knowbody challenges this...
- tallyhotallyho 7y ago
  Yes, people seem to be taking against these mediums now that they are exposing the pitfalls of their own political delusions. Turns out multiculturalism was stupid thing to impose upon a country. Turns out immigration has negative effects. Turns out the "democratisation" of media means those people you thought you could ignore can not be ignored. Must be the website! stop it! regulate the website!
walshemj 7y ago
When I accidently went to YouTube with no history a while back it was all those out there ultra right wing (by American stdards as well ) conspiracy crap

jccalhoun 7y ago

I agree with other commenters about "low quality content" being subjective. However, on a couple subreddits I will sometimes skim I often see tons of people posting links to videos that are just someone's take on a current event or just summarizing it. I have largely given up clicking on those because most of them can be summarized in 2-3 sentences much more quickly than watching some video and yet, on the times I actually do click on one of those links the video will have tens of thousands of views. Who is watching this stuff? I understand that the creators are trying to make a living but I don't understand why people watch the videos when they could learn the same amount of information much more quickly by reading it.

knzhou 7y ago
Yeah, there's an annoying genre of videos that's just a dude in his basement talking to his webcam for an hour. Not only is the format low information density, but you can't even extract the key bits by skimming through it.
- catalogia 7y ago
  > but you can't even extract the key bits by skimming through it. I generally avoid that format of video entirely, but using the subtitles as a searchable index helps a lot.
- jacobolus 7y ago
  This is also 99% of “podcasts”. Except instead of 1 dude in a basement, it’s usually a few people on a conference call.
- 6nf 7y ago
  This is all Youtube's doing. Youtube rewards channels that upload a full video every day, and for individual creators the only way to do that is to talk into a camera for 30 minutes and just upload it.
WWLink 7y ago
Ugh I know exactly what you mean! A lot of websites have been slowly morphing into "watch this 20 minute video of us explaining to you something that could be documented on 1 piece of paper"

crocodiletears 7y ago

Keep in mind that when you open YouTube from a blank history, you're not seeing what most people see when they're on youtube. In fact, due to their personalization algorithm, I doubt that there really is such a thing as a typical YouTube user. A quick web search suggests that there are 2 billion MAU on the platform, with 73% of US adults using it (roughly 180 million people) [0]. Opening YouTube from a private tab in the Midwestern US, I see a range of recommended videos published over the past five years, with about 1-100 million views each, most of them between 20 and fifty million views. This content is all largely inoffensive, clickbaity, and in-line with what you might expect from a publication like Buzzfeed, or viral content in the 'tens. These videos aren't the fastest growing, in fact it given their view:age ratio they've mostly peaked, so they were likely selected to appeal to the broadest swathe of the population possible, in order to kickstart user engagement. Even assuming this content is only seen by Americans, the most popular videos presented have only been seen by fewer than half the platform's users. Interspersed among the cute animal videos, the movie ads, the top n lists, and late-night TV compilations, there seems to be a selection of niche content which could be used to begin sorting you onto different user buckets. Sports videos, gaming channels, indie animated shorts, youtube poops, some Spanish content, etc. The trending tab seems even less representative of the userbase. Its engagement is in the hundreds of thousands, to maybe a couple million over the course of a few days, with notable exceptions being a few music videos, and a recent episode of JRE. I work with a lot of technically and "high culturally" illiterate people. A few that would be truly considered lowest common denominator. Not too many of them are clamoring to see the latest music video, or gushing over that Minions movie ad that YouTube thinks a new user might want to see. Nobody really gets on YouTube just to watch top ten cute animal videos unless they're really high. Videogame videos? Certainly, but there's a huge variety in those. A lot of using YouTube to learn new skills, or view product reviews. Not everybody's after the same kind of high brow content in niche x. In fact, they're likely after relevant, intelligent content that you don't even consider exists assuming they're older than 17. There's just too much variety in the population for that. But sooner or later everybody watches a movie trailer, or a music video, or a fall compilation, or a top ten list that fits their fancy. Their typical view? Not likely. But it's something everyone will probably watch. So that's what YouTube's going to show an unknown user. If you're disheartened by what you see, don't be. Just because everybody watches schlock doesn't mean nobody's watching in-depth, intelligent content. I'd wager most are. [0] https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ https://www.businessofapps.com/data/youtube-statistics/ [1] https://www.reference.com/world-view/many-adults-live-usa-b830ecdfb6047660 https://www.reference.com/world-view/many-adults-live-usa-b8...

b0rsuk 7y ago

I think computers used to be cool but are no longer perceived as such.

krapp 7y ago
I don't think computers have ever really been cool, except to a niche demographic. Prior to the ascendancy of the web, computers were the exclusive domain of nerds (who, as far as the mainstream was concerned, were very much uncool) and business people (eternally uncool.) After the web, the web was what was cool, but computers (and their use) just became mainstream.
- vikramkr 7y ago
  I think business people were definitely cool into he 80s. I wasnt there but the whole wolf of wall street Reaganomics thing was definitely cool even if it was destructive. And startup founders were definitely cool for a bit until we started hating tech. Rich people making money is almost always cool in American culture, whether it's startups or wall street or mob bosses
  - krapp 7y ago
    Maybe, I barely remember the 80s, so you might have a point. But even so, the cool business people tended to be the rich CEOs and Wall Street types (and I remember plenty of those as villains as well, think OCP from RoboCop) but still, they weren't the ones using the computers.
  - asveikau 7y ago
    Bill Gates was quite rich and ordinary people used to talk about him a lot. He was never seen as cool in that time. He's had a bit of a reputation increase since then, part of it is probably his philanthropy, but also nerdy people are much more accepted and celebrated these days.
    - b0rsuk 7y ago
      Really? I think it's the opposite. It's golden era for celebrities. You have fb, igram, yt and other platforms. You no longer need to be invited to TV or star in a movie. You can trivially publish a blog. Charisma never had as many opportunities as today. Trump, Boris Johnson - many people know they're compulsive liars and still don't care. Respect for academics is probably at its lowest. Science fiction was transformed from a popular science gateway drug to a source of colorful explosions and action movies.