5 ms·

The Staggering, Heartless Cruelty Toward the Elderly

22 points by laurex 7y ago

0xfaded 7y ago
I'd love to see a counter opinion about the elderly being cruel to the young by saddling them with debt, the climate crisis, social security, tax breaks for the retired, etc. What's interesting is this article notes that these young people are "not caring" about a generation, but probably do care for individuals in the generation (e.g. their wlown grand parents). This somewhat amusingly reflects the case where individual grand parents are often very generous to particular youth, but not to the generation as a whole. People should absolutely be taking the outbreak seriously, and I agree these young people are downplaying the severity. I just feel this article sets the stage so perfectly for a counter.
- leftyted 7y ago
  The article provides an example of what you're asking for: > "To be perfectly honest, and this is awful, but to the young, watching as the elderly over and over and over choose their own interests ahead of Climate policy kind of feels like they’re wishing us to a death they won’t have to experience. It’s a sad bit of fair play." I find the whole generational conflict bewildering. To me, blaming "the elderly" for "the climate crisis" and "saddling us with debt" seems stupid beyond words.
  - pasabagi 7y ago
    They do tend to vote for tire-burning candidates, on the whole. I personally feel there's a sort of vicious circle going on between the social isolation of the elderly, the elderly consequently watching too much TV, then (on the whole) developing rather unfortunate political views.
  - notduncansmith 7y ago
    > To me, blaming "the elderly" for "the climate crisis" and "saddling us with debt" seems stupid beyond words. Many in that generation selfishly liquidate humanity’s collective equity in the form of Earth’s natural resources and human health that could have grown and generated interest for generations. From a financial perspective they’ve royally fucked up their stewardship of this account. It’s not a good idea to act like every old person is part of the problem, but we have to remember that death is an important part of evolution, and just aim to be less of a collective disappointment to our own successors.
- 0x8BADF00D 7y ago
  It’s not a particularly new nor surprising narrative. It is said that the elderly are typically ignored and abused in the West, especially in the US. Contrast that to how the elderly are treated in the Orient. It depends on your definition of cruelty. Maybe to some, living with in-laws that despise you and leech off of you might be cruel. It’s all a matter of perspective.
- foogazi 7y ago
  You are just doing the same thing The “elderly” and the “young” are not faceless masses but people with their own interests There are more young voters than elderly voters and yet here we are still blaming previous generations There are more female voters than male and yet not a single woman has been president
  - DubiousPusher 7y ago
    > There are more young voters than elderly voters By most measures used by political scientists, that isn't really true. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/03/millennials-approach-baby-boomers-as-largest-generation-in-u-s-electorate/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/03/millennials...
micky_25 7y ago
What does it say about society in general when younger generations collectively despise older generations to the point were they don't care, even find it funny that they are under threat from a deadly virus. For too long old men haven't planted any trees they wont sit under, instead they've harvested the trees for short term profits to invest in their property portfolios.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Mr00_Oldie 7y ago
  Sure. That's why I see hordes of young people trying to reverse the "damage" the old generation has infliced upon the world. What I see is that most young people are self-centered A##oles.
  - micky_25 7y ago
    Young people shut down numerous cities protesting for action on climate change last year. Individually you have people like Boyan Slat. Young people do not have the political clout that the boomer generation has yet but they will in the next 20 or so years. That is why I'm hopeful for the future.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - WalterSear 7y ago
    > That's why I see hordes of young people trying to reverse the "damage" the old generation has infliced upon the world. This, but unironically.
drewcoo 7y ago
You know who else is anecdotally mistreated? Anyone. The brief piece builds its case on two anecdotes to claim general problems for a class of people.
wool_gather 7y ago
Contrast this with reports like this one: "Frustrated millennials say they can’t get their aging parents to [...] take coronavirus seriously" https://www.businessinsider.sg/millennials-say-parents-wont-take-coronavirus-precautions-2020-3 https://www.businessinsider.sg/millennials-say-parents-wont-... Like most things, it's probably over-reduction to attribute any given state of mind to every person born in a particular 20-year span.
Buldak 7y ago
Even setting aside the possibility that some generational resentments should perhaps be taken seriously, this op-ed is really thin. The author's evidence for "a degree of cruelty that is truly staggering" is two social media posts. To this point I haven't seen much reason to think that the elderly are really being shunned in the current climate.
- gremlinsinc 7y ago
  I think a lot could also be aimed not at seniors in rest homes, but seniors in congress, even on both sides of the aisle. Corona Virus and death in general doesn't differentiate by wealth or class, it comes for all equally if given a chance. Many younger people and people on the left probably feel that this is the only chance to maybe even out some justice on capital hill, and in the elite structures of the world. Nobody wants people's grandma's to die... Unless they are part of the gridlock problem in D.C., then maybe they could use at least an early retirement, we could definitely use less geriatrics running this country. Maybe we can be a better society if we set an age limit of 70 in public office.
ralph84 7y ago
If the author thinks overhearing some people saying old people will die soon in any case is “staggering, heartless cruelty”, he really needs to get out more.
mikestew 7y ago
What a crap premise. Had I a FB account, how long would it take for me to dredge up an anecdote or two like the author’s? Because that’s all the article is based on: two anecdotes, and then we’re off to the races of blame-placing and guilt. Ergo, I don’t have much of a response to the rest of the article. I mean, people can be assholes, don’t have to look far, nor across generational boundaries. No news there. — Not-Quite-Elderly
Ghjklov 7y ago
I think millenials/gen z would love to have sympathy for the elderly or others in general, but they are caught up trying to have any future at all in today's world. It seems cruel, but nihilism and dark humor are great coping methods to avoid being overburdened by all the bad things we can do nothing about. Yes, the elderly may die a little sooner than they would've liked after living long and fulfilled lives. But the young people making these jokes are probably struggling with the idea that they may not even live half as long as "those boomers".
Nevermark 7y ago
I think part of this is normal coping humor. A young person can feel conflicted between feelings of (a) relief that they are not in an endangered demographic, and (b) anxiety for people who are endangered and remaining self concern as they do not truly feel safe. Oversimplifying the situation with humor (only older people need to worry, I am not old) temporarily releases some anxiety. Dark humor does not necessarily reflect dark motives or values. Taken too far it can become callous denial, also likely as a anxiety numbing strategy. But most people just need a break from worry in a way that doesn’t harm anyone.
catalogia 7y ago
Treating the death of a young adult as several times more tragic than the death of an elderly adult is not a new phenomenon, nor is it irrational. Now, laughing in an elderly person's face is obviously rude and unnecessary (although I won't necessary begrudge gallows humor as a coping mechanism.) But expecting people to treat the death of elderly people as seriously as the death of young people is unreasonable.
jshaqaw 7y ago
I suspect the author overheard gallows humor as a coping mechanism in a conversation he wasn’t a part of so he had no context. Or maybe he overheard a couple of jerks. Some percent of jerks exist in every generation. That said much of the lack of empathy in this comment section depresses me more than the two guys walking down the Upper West Side. I sincerely hope this young generation radically changes the world. All of you castigating an entire generation facing down an imminent threat to their lives - well you may find as you age that it’s not as easy as life goes on to break out of a system from within as it may appear.

22 points by laurex 7y ago

I'd love to see a counter opinion about the elderly being cruel to the young by saddling them with debt, the climate crisis, social security, tax breaks for the retired, etc. What's interesting is this article notes that these young people are "not caring" about a generation, but probably do care for individuals in the generation (e.g. their wlown grand parents). This somewhat amusingly reflects the case where individual grand parents are often very generous to particular youth, but not to the generation as a whole. People should absolutely be taking the outbreak seriously, and I agree these young people are downplaying the severity. I just feel this article sets the stage so perfectly for a counter.

leftyted 7y ago
The article provides an example of what you're asking for: > "To be perfectly honest, and this is awful, but to the young, watching as the elderly over and over and over choose their own interests ahead of Climate policy kind of feels like they’re wishing us to a death they won’t have to experience. It’s a sad bit of fair play." I find the whole generational conflict bewildering. To me, blaming "the elderly" for "the climate crisis" and "saddling us with debt" seems stupid beyond words.
- pasabagi 7y ago
  They do tend to vote for tire-burning candidates, on the whole. I personally feel there's a sort of vicious circle going on between the social isolation of the elderly, the elderly consequently watching too much TV, then (on the whole) developing rather unfortunate political views.
- notduncansmith 7y ago
  > To me, blaming "the elderly" for "the climate crisis" and "saddling us with debt" seems stupid beyond words. Many in that generation selfishly liquidate humanity’s collective equity in the form of Earth’s natural resources and human health that could have grown and generated interest for generations. From a financial perspective they’ve royally fucked up their stewardship of this account. It’s not a good idea to act like every old person is part of the problem, but we have to remember that death is an important part of evolution, and just aim to be less of a collective disappointment to our own successors.
0x8BADF00D 7y ago
It’s not a particularly new nor surprising narrative. It is said that the elderly are typically ignored and abused in the West, especially in the US. Contrast that to how the elderly are treated in the Orient. It depends on your definition of cruelty. Maybe to some, living with in-laws that despise you and leech off of you might be cruel. It’s all a matter of perspective.
foogazi 7y ago
You are just doing the same thing The “elderly” and the “young” are not faceless masses but people with their own interests There are more young voters than elderly voters and yet here we are still blaming previous generations There are more female voters than male and yet not a single woman has been president
- DubiousPusher 7y ago
  > There are more young voters than elderly voters By most measures used by political scientists, that isn't really true. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/03/millennials-approach-baby-boomers-as-largest-generation-in-u-s-electorate/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/04/03/millennials...

micky_25 7y ago

What does it say about society in general when younger generations collectively despise older generations to the point were they don't care, even find it funny that they are under threat from a deadly virus. For too long old men haven't planted any trees they wont sit under, instead they've harvested the trees for short term profits to invest in their property portfolios.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Mr00_Oldie 7y ago
Sure. That's why I see hordes of young people trying to reverse the "damage" the old generation has infliced upon the world. What I see is that most young people are self-centered A##oles.
- micky_25 7y ago
  Young people shut down numerous cities protesting for action on climate change last year. Individually you have people like Boyan Slat. Young people do not have the political clout that the boomer generation has yet but they will in the next 20 or so years. That is why I'm hopeful for the future.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- WalterSear 7y ago
  > That's why I see hordes of young people trying to reverse the "damage" the old generation has infliced upon the world. This, but unironically.

drewcoo 7y ago

You know who else is anecdotally mistreated? Anyone. The brief piece builds its case on two anecdotes to claim general problems for a class of people.

wool_gather 7y ago

Contrast this with reports like this one: "Frustrated millennials say they can’t get their aging parents to [...] take coronavirus seriously" https://www.businessinsider.sg/millennials-say-parents-wont-take-coronavirus-precautions-2020-3 https://www.businessinsider.sg/millennials-say-parents-wont-... Like most things, it's probably over-reduction to attribute any given state of mind to every person born in a particular 20-year span.

Buldak 7y ago

Even setting aside the possibility that some generational resentments should perhaps be taken seriously, this op-ed is really thin. The author's evidence for "a degree of cruelty that is truly staggering" is two social media posts. To this point I haven't seen much reason to think that the elderly are really being shunned in the current climate.

gremlinsinc 7y ago
I think a lot could also be aimed not at seniors in rest homes, but seniors in congress, even on both sides of the aisle. Corona Virus and death in general doesn't differentiate by wealth or class, it comes for all equally if given a chance. Many younger people and people on the left probably feel that this is the only chance to maybe even out some justice on capital hill, and in the elite structures of the world. Nobody wants people's grandma's to die... Unless they are part of the gridlock problem in D.C., then maybe they could use at least an early retirement, we could definitely use less geriatrics running this country. Maybe we can be a better society if we set an age limit of 70 in public office.

ralph84 7y ago

If the author thinks overhearing some people saying old people will die soon in any case is “staggering, heartless cruelty”, he really needs to get out more.

mikestew 7y ago

What a crap premise. Had I a FB account, how long would it take for me to dredge up an anecdote or two like the author’s? Because that’s all the article is based on: two anecdotes, and then we’re off to the races of blame-placing and guilt. Ergo, I don’t have much of a response to the rest of the article. I mean, people can be assholes, don’t have to look far, nor across generational boundaries. No news there. — Not-Quite-Elderly

Ghjklov 7y ago

I think millenials/gen z would love to have sympathy for the elderly or others in general, but they are caught up trying to have any future at all in today's world. It seems cruel, but nihilism and dark humor are great coping methods to avoid being overburdened by all the bad things we can do nothing about. Yes, the elderly may die a little sooner than they would've liked after living long and fulfilled lives. But the young people making these jokes are probably struggling with the idea that they may not even live half as long as "those boomers".

Nevermark 7y ago

I think part of this is normal coping humor. A young person can feel conflicted between feelings of (a) relief that they are not in an endangered demographic, and (b) anxiety for people who are endangered and remaining self concern as they do not truly feel safe. Oversimplifying the situation with humor (only older people need to worry, I am not old) temporarily releases some anxiety. Dark humor does not necessarily reflect dark motives or values. Taken too far it can become callous denial, also likely as a anxiety numbing strategy. But most people just need a break from worry in a way that doesn’t harm anyone.

catalogia 7y ago

Treating the death of a young adult as several times more tragic than the death of an elderly adult is not a new phenomenon, nor is it irrational. Now, laughing in an elderly person's face is obviously rude and unnecessary (although I won't necessary begrudge gallows humor as a coping mechanism.) But expecting people to treat the death of elderly people as seriously as the death of young people is unreasonable.

jshaqaw 7y ago

I suspect the author overheard gallows humor as a coping mechanism in a conversation he wasn’t a part of so he had no context. Or maybe he overheard a couple of jerks. Some percent of jerks exist in every generation. That said much of the lack of empathy in this comment section depresses me more than the two guys walking down the Upper West Side. I sincerely hope this young generation radically changes the world. All of you castigating an entire generation facing down an imminent threat to their lives - well you may find as you age that it’s not as easy as life goes on to break out of a system from within as it may appear.