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Because the bike industry is currently switching over from rim brakes to disc brakes, you can get some pretty good deals on older (but still brand new) road bik

Because the bike industry is currently switching over from rim brakes to disc brakes, you can get some pretty good deals on older (but still brand new) road bikes if you look around. A few months ago I bought a carbon road bike for less than $1,500 including tax. Granted expect to spend at least as much on accessories, but if you live somewhere where you can use it for both commuting and exercise then it still pays for itself pretty quick.

thedance 7y ago
This is the whole problem with American bicycle culture summarized in a single post. There’s way too many carbon-fiber sports bikes and not anywhere near enough step-through town bikes with panniers, fenders and lights.
- Alex3917 7y ago
  The basic issue is that in Amsterdam most trips are only a mile or two, whereas in NYC it's often a 10 or 15 mile commute between home and work. But yeah if you're only going a couple miles on mostly flat terrain then no question a commuter bike is a better choice.
  - aqme28 7y ago
    I don't think that's right. Most of my bike rides are about 1-3 miles. When I commute to work it's about 6 miles and that's farther than most people bike here.
    - zck 7y ago
      I think the statement is "most NYC commutes are longer than Amsterdam commutes, so chances are lower that each commute could be done by bicycle". My commute would be almost six miles by bicycle. I'm not especially looking to replace the subway with a bike trip.
      - danieldk 7y ago
        My commute would be almost six miles by bicycle. I'm not especially looking to replace the subway with a bike trip. We cycled 8 miles to high school every day (so, 16 per day). Cycling 6 miles is not a lot, unless you have to stop every minute at a traffic light. Up till 1.5 year ago (when I wasn't working remotely), I cycled 7 miles to work every single day (also through rain and snow). For good measure, I'd take an extra hilly route the way back twice a week for some extra exercise.
        zck 7y ago
        > Cycling 6 miles is not a lot... If you say so. It is for me. It's not only a long distance (google maps says 35 minutes, which I suspect is an underestimate), but also would be significantly inconvenient -- do I shower at work, and when I get home? What if I want to go somewhere after work -- leave the bike and come back for it? I love the idea of biking, but I don't see it being useful for my commute.
        thedance 7y ago
        Fundamentally there is no transportation solution to land use problems. If your destinations are inconveniently far apart, no bicycle, tram, bus, or train can fix that. The closest you can get to the convenience of a car without all the externalized social costs is an electric bicycle.
        zck 7y ago
        I have an average commute, I'd say, for NYC. It's not like I'm some sort of supercommuter (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-surging-ranks-of-super-commuters/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-surging-ranks-of-super-comm...).
        thedance 7y ago
        I don’t doubt it but statistically New York has a very high average commute time compared to other American cities.
  - vikramkr 7y ago
    And commuting even a couple miles on Philadelphia roads is basically like off roading at times - and San Francisco hills are legendary in their own right. I was rattling my brain out of my skull trying to deal with rough Philly roads in the winter and a proper carbon bike with good brakes/ability to stop on a dime if a crazy driver is cutting me off (I have heard legends of these things called "protected bike Lanes" - I hope to see one someday...) was a godsend.
    - thedance 7y ago
      On rough roads I’ve never been happier than on my longtail Xtracycle Edgerunner. With the seat post far removed from the axle, and a flexible steel frame, and Big Apple tires, it is ultra-comfortable.
      - vikramkr 7y ago
        That sounds like a sweet ride - glad you found one that works for you. I got a trek something (one of those cases where the fancy version from last year was on sale because the new model has cables inside instead of outside and made it obsolete or something) and it's been awesome. It also got me into cycling for fun as well - and again - Philly streets, it's been nice to have something able to stand up to it instead of what I had before haha
  - thedance 7y ago
    If you have further to go you’ll be even less happy with the sporting bike because it can’t carry your stuff. The solution to long distances is electric bikes, not sports bikes.
    - jcheng 7y ago
      There’s a huge range of bikes between ones so sporty that they can’t take a rack and fenders, and step-through city bikes. Here’s a typical example, it has an endurance geometry and has mounts for a rack: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/gravel-bikes/checkpoint/checkpoint-al/checkpoint-al-3/p/24969/?colorCode=white https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/gravel-b...
  - watwut 7y ago
    Amsterdam has humidity and weather in which parts corrode. And bikes get stolen often. It just does not make sense to buy expensive bike that gonna get damaged fast or stolen fast.
- tjr225 7y ago
  Eh, the trend now is for steel bikes that can ride anywhere with braze ons for accessories. It’ll just take a while for it to catch on.
  - Alex3917 7y ago
    If you can't bring your bike inside your building then no question steel is the way to go. NYC has some laws to encourage building owners to provide bike storage though, e.g.: https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/bikesinbuildings.shtml https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/bikesinbuildin...
uk_programmer 7y ago
As someone that used to be an avid cyclist. Disc brakes are almost completely pointless for commuter bicycles. Don't get me wrong they are great when mountain biking (I have cable discs on my mountain bike). On a commuter bike they are mostly just overkill IMHO. But I wouldn't buy a carbon road bike either (All my bikes are steel framed).
- mikestew 7y ago
  Disc brakes are almost completely pointless for commuter bicycles Ignore this comment. Year-round commuting is the prime reason to buy a bike with disc brakes. Is it overkill not to burn through a set of rims each winter? Is it overkill to have decreased stopping distance in the rain? Anyone want to go back to drum brakes on their “commuter” car? Yeah, didn’t think so.
  - justinfrankel 7y ago
    I have short-reach dual pivot brake calipers on a bike which sees >2000 miles year-round each year in NYC, and my rims are still fine after 7 years. From my experience, stopping distance is usually dictated by road conditions more than the brakes. This is with 34mm wide tires, and properly adjusted brakes (a lot of times when people complain about rim brakes, the issue is that they are not working properly). Side note: fenders are a must!
    - grogenaut 7y ago
      Sure and the point is discs will much more easily stop you, the limit of the stopping power is not the brake (friction on rim) like they are in cantilevers, but with the overall physics of the system. Discs are generally in alignment, or very very obviously out of alignment (rubbing loudly), canti's have a lot more room for error. I'd much rather have a brake system that out performs the rest of the equation than not have enough stopping power.
    - mikestew 7y ago
      In Seattle, I’m not the only one on my race team that would eat rims every year or two. Fact is, rim brakes are inferior in every way to just about every alternative, save two: they’re inexpensive and lightweight.
adrianN 7y ago
Or you can buy a $500 no frills quality bike or a $200 bike shaped Walmart thing.
- fennecfoxen 7y ago
  The problem with the bike shaped Walmart thing is that it is absolutely irreparable. Got a $200 bike shaped thing first thing when I got a job (technically Kmart but otherwise the same). Dumb mistake. The crank gear bent out of shape before too long, just from applying pedal power to climb a hill. On another bike, that’d be $20 in parts and $40 in labor maybe? On this one it was basically impossible as it was not designed to be replaceable or even serviceable and I had to throw the bike away.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    Never mind that they're assembled by Walmart employees who have no idea what they're doing, and can be quite unsafe. You wouldn't buy a $10 airbag replacement for a car, and you shouldn't buy the cheapest bike possible. This is safety equipment; a failure at speed can be quite injurious to your body.
    - Alex3917 7y ago
      Exactly. Cheap bikes are made out of aluminum, which can fail at any time without warning and cause injury or death. Much better just to pay extra for carbon / steel / titanium. Carbon still fails, but there are more likely to be warnings first, and even if it does fail completely you're not likely to puncture a lung or whatever from it getting impaled through your chest. Steel and titanium shouldn't fail at all unless you're in a bad accident first. Bikes are great, but you need to take seriously the fact that they can cause serious injury or death.
      - CydeWeys 7y ago
        Where are you getting this from? Carbon fiber is more failure-prone than aluminum is. There are some very nice bikes made out of aluminum (up to the several thousand dollar range). Steel vs aluminum is more of a choice in ride comfort vs weight.

thedance 7y ago

This is the whole problem with American bicycle culture summarized in a single post. There’s way too many carbon-fiber sports bikes and not anywhere near enough step-through town bikes with panniers, fenders and lights.

Alex3917 7y ago
The basic issue is that in Amsterdam most trips are only a mile or two, whereas in NYC it's often a 10 or 15 mile commute between home and work. But yeah if you're only going a couple miles on mostly flat terrain then no question a commuter bike is a better choice.
- aqme28 7y ago
  I don't think that's right. Most of my bike rides are about 1-3 miles. When I commute to work it's about 6 miles and that's farther than most people bike here.
  - zck 7y ago
    I think the statement is "most NYC commutes are longer than Amsterdam commutes, so chances are lower that each commute could be done by bicycle". My commute would be almost six miles by bicycle. I'm not especially looking to replace the subway with a bike trip.
    - danieldk 7y ago
      My commute would be almost six miles by bicycle. I'm not especially looking to replace the subway with a bike trip. We cycled 8 miles to high school every day (so, 16 per day). Cycling 6 miles is not a lot, unless you have to stop every minute at a traffic light. Up till 1.5 year ago (when I wasn't working remotely), I cycled 7 miles to work every single day (also through rain and snow). For good measure, I'd take an extra hilly route the way back twice a week for some extra exercise.
      - zck 7y ago
        > Cycling 6 miles is not a lot... If you say so. It is for me. It's not only a long distance (google maps says 35 minutes, which I suspect is an underestimate), but also would be significantly inconvenient -- do I shower at work, and when I get home? What if I want to go somewhere after work -- leave the bike and come back for it? I love the idea of biking, but I don't see it being useful for my commute.
        thedance 7y ago
        Fundamentally there is no transportation solution to land use problems. If your destinations are inconveniently far apart, no bicycle, tram, bus, or train can fix that. The closest you can get to the convenience of a car without all the externalized social costs is an electric bicycle.
        zck 7y ago
        I have an average commute, I'd say, for NYC. It's not like I'm some sort of supercommuter (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-surging-ranks-of-super-commuters/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-surging-ranks-of-super-comm...).
        thedance 7y ago
        I don’t doubt it but statistically New York has a very high average commute time compared to other American cities.
- vikramkr 7y ago
  And commuting even a couple miles on Philadelphia roads is basically like off roading at times - and San Francisco hills are legendary in their own right. I was rattling my brain out of my skull trying to deal with rough Philly roads in the winter and a proper carbon bike with good brakes/ability to stop on a dime if a crazy driver is cutting me off (I have heard legends of these things called "protected bike Lanes" - I hope to see one someday...) was a godsend.
  - thedance 7y ago
    On rough roads I’ve never been happier than on my longtail Xtracycle Edgerunner. With the seat post far removed from the axle, and a flexible steel frame, and Big Apple tires, it is ultra-comfortable.
    - vikramkr 7y ago
      That sounds like a sweet ride - glad you found one that works for you. I got a trek something (one of those cases where the fancy version from last year was on sale because the new model has cables inside instead of outside and made it obsolete or something) and it's been awesome. It also got me into cycling for fun as well - and again - Philly streets, it's been nice to have something able to stand up to it instead of what I had before haha
- thedance 7y ago
  If you have further to go you’ll be even less happy with the sporting bike because it can’t carry your stuff. The solution to long distances is electric bikes, not sports bikes.
  - jcheng 7y ago
    There’s a huge range of bikes between ones so sporty that they can’t take a rack and fenders, and step-through city bikes. Here’s a typical example, it has an endurance geometry and has mounts for a rack: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/gravel-bikes/checkpoint/checkpoint-al/checkpoint-al-3/p/24969/?colorCode=white https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/road-bikes/gravel-b...
- watwut 7y ago
  Amsterdam has humidity and weather in which parts corrode. And bikes get stolen often. It just does not make sense to buy expensive bike that gonna get damaged fast or stolen fast.
tjr225 7y ago
Eh, the trend now is for steel bikes that can ride anywhere with braze ons for accessories. It’ll just take a while for it to catch on.
- Alex3917 7y ago
  If you can't bring your bike inside your building then no question steel is the way to go. NYC has some laws to encourage building owners to provide bike storage though, e.g.: https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/bikesinbuildings.shtml https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/bikesinbuildin...

uk_programmer 7y ago

As someone that used to be an avid cyclist. Disc brakes are almost completely pointless for commuter bicycles. Don't get me wrong they are great when mountain biking (I have cable discs on my mountain bike). On a commuter bike they are mostly just overkill IMHO. But I wouldn't buy a carbon road bike either (All my bikes are steel framed).

mikestew 7y ago
Disc brakes are almost completely pointless for commuter bicycles Ignore this comment. Year-round commuting is the prime reason to buy a bike with disc brakes. Is it overkill not to burn through a set of rims each winter? Is it overkill to have decreased stopping distance in the rain? Anyone want to go back to drum brakes on their “commuter” car? Yeah, didn’t think so.
- justinfrankel 7y ago
  I have short-reach dual pivot brake calipers on a bike which sees >2000 miles year-round each year in NYC, and my rims are still fine after 7 years. From my experience, stopping distance is usually dictated by road conditions more than the brakes. This is with 34mm wide tires, and properly adjusted brakes (a lot of times when people complain about rim brakes, the issue is that they are not working properly). Side note: fenders are a must!
  - grogenaut 7y ago
    Sure and the point is discs will much more easily stop you, the limit of the stopping power is not the brake (friction on rim) like they are in cantilevers, but with the overall physics of the system. Discs are generally in alignment, or very very obviously out of alignment (rubbing loudly), canti's have a lot more room for error. I'd much rather have a brake system that out performs the rest of the equation than not have enough stopping power.
  - mikestew 7y ago
    In Seattle, I’m not the only one on my race team that would eat rims every year or two. Fact is, rim brakes are inferior in every way to just about every alternative, save two: they’re inexpensive and lightweight.

adrianN 7y ago

Or you can buy a $500 no frills quality bike or a $200 bike shaped Walmart thing.

fennecfoxen 7y ago
The problem with the bike shaped Walmart thing is that it is absolutely irreparable. Got a $200 bike shaped thing first thing when I got a job (technically Kmart but otherwise the same). Dumb mistake. The crank gear bent out of shape before too long, just from applying pedal power to climb a hill. On another bike, that’d be $20 in parts and $40 in labor maybe? On this one it was basically impossible as it was not designed to be replaceable or even serviceable and I had to throw the bike away.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  Never mind that they're assembled by Walmart employees who have no idea what they're doing, and can be quite unsafe. You wouldn't buy a $10 airbag replacement for a car, and you shouldn't buy the cheapest bike possible. This is safety equipment; a failure at speed can be quite injurious to your body.
  - Alex3917 7y ago
    Exactly. Cheap bikes are made out of aluminum, which can fail at any time without warning and cause injury or death. Much better just to pay extra for carbon / steel / titanium. Carbon still fails, but there are more likely to be warnings first, and even if it does fail completely you're not likely to puncture a lung or whatever from it getting impaled through your chest. Steel and titanium shouldn't fail at all unless you're in a bad accident first. Bikes are great, but you need to take seriously the fact that they can cause serious injury or death.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      Where are you getting this from? Carbon fiber is more failure-prone than aluminum is. There are some very nice bikes made out of aluminum (up to the several thousand dollar range). Steel vs aluminum is more of a choice in ride comfort vs weight.