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I don't hate Sweden, I actually quite like the place. I just don't like the way the "government" handles things at the moment, including their handling - or rat

I don't hate Sweden, I actually quite like the place. I just don't like the way the "government" handles things at the moment, including their handling - or rather lack of handling - of the oncoming epidemic. Your statement on Swedish health care being "very accessible and free" is easily countered by the fact that the waiting times are notoriously long and getting longer while the amount of provincial tax money spent per capita is more than double the amount spent by neighbouring Finland which manages to avoid some of these problems. Those long waiting times have led to a large increase in the number of people who take out private health insurance to make sure they can actually get the treatment they need instead of having to wait for half a year or more. This means those people pay twice for health care, one time through their provincial taxes, another time through their health insurance. This has been compounded by the "government" putting an extra tax on private health insurance because they deem it unfair that those who have private insurance don't have to wait as long for treatment as those who lack such insurance. I am all for single-payer health insurance, either through the state or through a private-public system like the Netherlands uses. I just don't see how the current Swedish system can be seen as a good solution given the high costs and low productivity it is characterised by. Those fatality rates you quote are based on the assumption that the reported case incidence is correct which is very likely not the case. Assuming that the number of SARS2-related deaths is correct this number is probably the best way to make an estimate of the actual case incidence in developed countries with a functioning (not overloaded) health care system - this does not go for e.g. Italy where they're now doing reverse triage, i.e. they decide who gets treatment based on a desire to maximize throughput instead of treating those who have the highest need first as is done in a non-overloaded situation. By the way, I'm not a Swede. I am a Dutchman living in Sweden with a Swedish-French wife and two Dutch-Swedish-French children.

bjourne 7y ago
> I don't hate Sweden, I actually quite like the place. I just don't like the way the "government" handles things at the moment, including their handling - or rather lack of handling - of the oncoming epidemic. That would be a fair position if you could tell us how you would do it better. Preferably your proposals should be based on research. I imagine being an epidemologist and constantly having people questioning your expertise is not dissimilar to being a software developer and having people constantly doing the same to you. Frustrating, in other words. > Your statement on Swedish health care being "very accessible and free" is easily countered by the fact that the waiting times are notoriously long and getting longer while the amount of provincial tax money spent per capita is more than double the amount spent by neighbouring Finland which manages to avoid some of these problems. Corona testing would be executed by primary caregivers for which waiting times are short. See https://www.vantetider.se/ https://www.vantetider.se/ The stats say that 80% of patients have to wait less than three days for a doctor's appointment. Tax rates are a very broad discussion and in my opinion not relevant here. > Those long waiting times have led to a large increase in the number of people who take out private health insurance to make sure they can actually get the treatment they need instead of having to wait for half a year or more. 6% of the population has a private health insurance. Such insurance can reduce waiting times to specialist care but not primary care. > Those fatality rates you quote are based on the assumption that the reported case incidence is correct which is very likely not the case. True. My point is that, all else being equal, the better the healthcare the lower the mortality rate should be. E.g Germany has 3062 cases but only 5 fatalities meaning that the disease is probably somewhat contained. The US has 2345 cases and 50 fatalities meaning the opposite. > By the way, I'm not a Swede. I am a Dutchman living in Sweden with a Swedish-French wife and two Dutch-Swedish-French children. I apologize for jumping to conclusions.
- Yetanfou 7y ago
  > That would be a fair position if you could tell us how you would do it better While I have much to fault the overly bureaucratic and top-heavy WHO for I do agree to their current stance on the handling of the pandemic. This stance is based on research and is supported by many in the field. It is also followed by a large number of countries in Europe except for a few, Sweden being one of those. I linked to one of Dr. John Campbell's (who is one of the more reasonable voices on this subject) videos on this subject a few posts above this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE > Corona testing would be executed by primary caregivers It shouldn't. It should be done outside of the normal healthcare centres ("vårdcentraler") to reduce the risk of infection. Look at the way it is done in South Korea where mobile testing facilities are used for an idea on how to handle this. There should be no need for an appointment, the test should be "drive-through" or "walk-through". > 6% of the population has a private health insurance. Such insurance can reduce waiting times to specialist care but not primary care. The waiting times are mostly an issue for specialist care. Given that a large part of the role of the primary care provider is to refer people to specialist care this reduction in waiting times is very relevant.

bjourne 7y ago

> I don't hate Sweden, I actually quite like the place. I just don't like the way the "government" handles things at the moment, including their handling - or rather lack of handling - of the oncoming epidemic. That would be a fair position if you could tell us how you would do it better. Preferably your proposals should be based on research. I imagine being an epidemologist and constantly having people questioning your expertise is not dissimilar to being a software developer and having people constantly doing the same to you. Frustrating, in other words. > Your statement on Swedish health care being "very accessible and free" is easily countered by the fact that the waiting times are notoriously long and getting longer while the amount of provincial tax money spent per capita is more than double the amount spent by neighbouring Finland which manages to avoid some of these problems. Corona testing would be executed by primary caregivers for which waiting times are short. See https://www.vantetider.se/ https://www.vantetider.se/ The stats say that 80% of patients have to wait less than three days for a doctor's appointment. Tax rates are a very broad discussion and in my opinion not relevant here. > Those long waiting times have led to a large increase in the number of people who take out private health insurance to make sure they can actually get the treatment they need instead of having to wait for half a year or more. 6% of the population has a private health insurance. Such insurance can reduce waiting times to specialist care but not primary care. > Those fatality rates you quote are based on the assumption that the reported case incidence is correct which is very likely not the case. True. My point is that, all else being equal, the better the healthcare the lower the mortality rate should be. E.g Germany has 3062 cases but only 5 fatalities meaning that the disease is probably somewhat contained. The US has 2345 cases and 50 fatalities meaning the opposite. > By the way, I'm not a Swede. I am a Dutchman living in Sweden with a Swedish-French wife and two Dutch-Swedish-French children. I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

Yetanfou 7y ago
> That would be a fair position if you could tell us how you would do it better While I have much to fault the overly bureaucratic and top-heavy WHO for I do agree to their current stance on the handling of the pandemic. This stance is based on research and is supported by many in the field. It is also followed by a large number of countries in Europe except for a few, Sweden being one of those. I linked to one of Dr. John Campbell's (who is one of the more reasonable voices on this subject) videos on this subject a few posts above this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE > Corona testing would be executed by primary caregivers It shouldn't. It should be done outside of the normal healthcare centres ("vårdcentraler") to reduce the risk of infection. Look at the way it is done in South Korea where mobile testing facilities are used for an idea on how to handle this. There should be no need for an appointment, the test should be "drive-through" or "walk-through". > 6% of the population has a private health insurance. Such insurance can reduce waiting times to specialist care but not primary care. The waiting times are mostly an issue for specialist care. Given that a large part of the role of the primary care provider is to refer people to specialist care this reduction in waiting times is very relevant.