6 ms·

It's interesting that in naturally aspirated mode, the engine creates around 280hp. That's right around what SUVs and Crossovers are currently producing. This e

It's interesting that in naturally aspirated mode, the engine creates around 280hp. That's right around what SUVs and Crossovers are currently producing. This engine has a real potential to be a game-changer; if the freevalve tech can be made cheap enough and reliable enough for mass production, it could really improve average efficiency and emissions for a large number of cars. Great Tech!

ehnto 7y ago
The turbocharged peak power was said to come at 7500rpm, with peak torque of 443lb at 3000rpm which is pretty good! I would expect NA torque to be somewhere in the mid 200lb region, which is comparable to the 2020 Nissan Pathfinder in both V6 and I4 petrol variants. The I4 Turbo diesel obviously putting out far more torque at lower RPM making it more usable. But there is no doubt that Koenigsegg has made a huge leap here. The only missing datapoint is reliability. How aggresive is the tuning on the engine to get these numbers and does that effect it's long term robustness?
- kingkongjaffa 7y ago
  Just look at the cars they currently make. Highly tuned supercars not economical commuter vehicles. skeptical tech from one will transfer to the other. I used to work for a supercar company, our unit price made certain tech possible, not even thinkable for mass-auto.
  - ehnto 7y ago
    You're right, I wouldn't expect this level of performance from a commuter car with similar displacement. That said, Hyundai recently developed their Continuously Variable Valve Duration system, which looks to solve changing valve duration more affordably in an all mechanical system.
    - ska 7y ago
      There are a few of these valve systems around (if i recall correctly they've been around for decades, really). BMW started putting them in motorcycles recently.
      - ehnto 7y ago
        You might be thinking of VVT or variable valve timing, which changes when the valve opens. Variable valve duration changes for how long it opens for and I think is a recent innovation. The latter allows for more efficiency as the engine at different speeds and loads requires more or less lift duration. It's also continuously variable across the RPM/load table, wheras most VVT systems just swap between two different activation timings and as such are always a compromise somewhere in the range. I have also seen a system that swaps between two different cam lobes entirely, offering two different cam profiles which can also vary valve duration and not just timing, but you're limited to two settings again, where these newer systems offer complete variability.
        ska 7y ago
        No, these are not VVT. I might be misremembering, but I thought the new bmw system was dual cam - so exactly what you are suggesting, a trade off in the middle, but not vvt. At any rate, variable cam systems in bikes have certainly been around since the early 80s with one of the 400c cbrs. They never really caught on but there are a bunch of variations.
      - Grazester 7y ago
        Not with variable duration. Hyundai is the only car company doing that now.
        kelchm 7y ago
        Worth noting that Rover apparently had a VVC system [1] that allowed the duration of intake valves to be continuously varied all the way back in 1995. [1]: https://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/vvt_4.htm https://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/vvt_4.htm
        7y ago
kingkongjaffa 7y ago
Is the cost of the old parts being replaced more than the new ones in terms of the technologies being used? Mechanical cams are going to be more reliable than a pnuematic system. maintenance is going to be much different than the other 99.9% of cars that use a timing belt/chain. Skeptical that the incumbents like Bosch wouldn't have already tried this in some form they have the OEM EMS / fuel rail industry major market share. As with all things mass-auto it's down to unit price economics vs how desperately do we need to put this in the cars to meet emissions regs.
- busterarm 7y ago
  Renault was racing camless engines with pneumatic actuators in Formula 1 in the 80s. This tech has a long history and research behind it.
  - eanzenberg 7y ago
    Racing engines last ~1000mi
    - vvillena 7y ago
      Not anymore. F1 cars use just 3 engines for the whole season. Lots of other categories use one single engine per seasone. The "one engine per event" era is long gone.
DagAgren 7y ago
Internal combustion is over. There's no future to be improved in it, it's going away. We simply can't afford to use it any more, and it is being phased out.
- vardump 7y ago
  You're right, but for wrong reasons. Internal combustion engines will go away, because electric vehicles' cost curve will destroy them. IIRC, batteries get 13% cheaper per year, and that means price halves every 5 years or so. Right now 1 kWh of batteries (including BMS) costs about $100. So in 2025 one kWh of batteries will probably cost only $50. Electric vehicles purchase price will simply be cheaper unless ICE vehicles get subsidies. At that point, for economical consideration you'll need to have pretty compelling reasons to buy an ICE vehicle. Ultimately even gas station network will be decimated and gradually fade away.
  - busterarm 7y ago
    There are still areas where ICE will dominate simply because batteries aren't practical or economical, despite being a cheaper fuel. Extreme environments, heavy machinery, etc. ICE are never going away.
    - DagAgren 7y ago
      And?
      - busterarm 7y ago
        And I directly refuted your argument and this is all you have to say. I didn't even get into the laughable aspect of how 1/7th of the planet's population still lives _without electricity_. There's countries that do have electricity where their energy infrastructure and access is unstable (e.g., Moldova). Most of those places can get some burnable fuel, but I'm sure they'd just love your argument that batteries will soon be the only game in town. The idea of ICE being a technological dead end is a spoiled person's fantasy.

ehnto 7y ago

The turbocharged peak power was said to come at 7500rpm, with peak torque of 443lb at 3000rpm which is pretty good! I would expect NA torque to be somewhere in the mid 200lb region, which is comparable to the 2020 Nissan Pathfinder in both V6 and I4 petrol variants. The I4 Turbo diesel obviously putting out far more torque at lower RPM making it more usable. But there is no doubt that Koenigsegg has made a huge leap here. The only missing datapoint is reliability. How aggresive is the tuning on the engine to get these numbers and does that effect it's long term robustness?

kingkongjaffa 7y ago
Just look at the cars they currently make. Highly tuned supercars not economical commuter vehicles. skeptical tech from one will transfer to the other. I used to work for a supercar company, our unit price made certain tech possible, not even thinkable for mass-auto.
- ehnto 7y ago
  You're right, I wouldn't expect this level of performance from a commuter car with similar displacement. That said, Hyundai recently developed their Continuously Variable Valve Duration system, which looks to solve changing valve duration more affordably in an all mechanical system.
  - ska 7y ago
    There are a few of these valve systems around (if i recall correctly they've been around for decades, really). BMW started putting them in motorcycles recently.
    - ehnto 7y ago
      You might be thinking of VVT or variable valve timing, which changes when the valve opens. Variable valve duration changes for how long it opens for and I think is a recent innovation. The latter allows for more efficiency as the engine at different speeds and loads requires more or less lift duration. It's also continuously variable across the RPM/load table, wheras most VVT systems just swap between two different activation timings and as such are always a compromise somewhere in the range. I have also seen a system that swaps between two different cam lobes entirely, offering two different cam profiles which can also vary valve duration and not just timing, but you're limited to two settings again, where these newer systems offer complete variability.
      - ska 7y ago
        No, these are not VVT. I might be misremembering, but I thought the new bmw system was dual cam - so exactly what you are suggesting, a trade off in the middle, but not vvt. At any rate, variable cam systems in bikes have certainly been around since the early 80s with one of the 400c cbrs. They never really caught on but there are a bunch of variations.
    - Grazester 7y ago
      Not with variable duration. Hyundai is the only car company doing that now.
      - kelchm 7y ago
        Worth noting that Rover apparently had a VVC system [1] that allowed the duration of intake valves to be continuously varied all the way back in 1995. [1]: https://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/vvt_4.htm https://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/vvt_4.htm
      - 7y ago

kingkongjaffa 7y ago

Is the cost of the old parts being replaced more than the new ones in terms of the technologies being used? Mechanical cams are going to be more reliable than a pnuematic system. maintenance is going to be much different than the other 99.9% of cars that use a timing belt/chain. Skeptical that the incumbents like Bosch wouldn't have already tried this in some form they have the OEM EMS / fuel rail industry major market share. As with all things mass-auto it's down to unit price economics vs how desperately do we need to put this in the cars to meet emissions regs.

busterarm 7y ago
Renault was racing camless engines with pneumatic actuators in Formula 1 in the 80s. This tech has a long history and research behind it.
- eanzenberg 7y ago
  Racing engines last ~1000mi
  - vvillena 7y ago
    Not anymore. F1 cars use just 3 engines for the whole season. Lots of other categories use one single engine per seasone. The "one engine per event" era is long gone.

DagAgren 7y ago

Internal combustion is over. There's no future to be improved in it, it's going away. We simply can't afford to use it any more, and it is being phased out.

vardump 7y ago
You're right, but for wrong reasons. Internal combustion engines will go away, because electric vehicles' cost curve will destroy them. IIRC, batteries get 13% cheaper per year, and that means price halves every 5 years or so. Right now 1 kWh of batteries (including BMS) costs about $100. So in 2025 one kWh of batteries will probably cost only $50. Electric vehicles purchase price will simply be cheaper unless ICE vehicles get subsidies. At that point, for economical consideration you'll need to have pretty compelling reasons to buy an ICE vehicle. Ultimately even gas station network will be decimated and gradually fade away.
- busterarm 7y ago
  There are still areas where ICE will dominate simply because batteries aren't practical or economical, despite being a cheaper fuel. Extreme environments, heavy machinery, etc. ICE are never going away.
  - DagAgren 7y ago
    And?
    - busterarm 7y ago
      And I directly refuted your argument and this is all you have to say. I didn't even get into the laughable aspect of how 1/7th of the planet's population still lives _without electricity_. There's countries that do have electricity where their energy infrastructure and access is unstable (e.g., Moldova). Most of those places can get some burnable fuel, but I'm sure they'd just love your argument that batteries will soon be the only game in town. The idea of ICE being a technological dead end is a spoiled person's fantasy.