7 ms·

The idea that the correct solution to this is that supermarkets should be charging the same as the profiteering hoarders (say $20 for a small hand sanitiser and

by altacc 7y ago

The idea that the correct solution to this is that supermarkets should be charging the same as the profiteering hoarders (say $20 for a small hand sanitiser and $40 for a pack of toilet rolls) is totally insane to me. This isn't some mythical free market model in a textbook, this is the real world, where real people live. Luckily society in general, through its laws, social judgement, etc... agrees to some extent that this level of greed shouldn't exist.

daenz 7y ago
>The idea that the correct solution to this is that supermarkets should be charging the same as the profiteering hoarders Where did I say they would charge the same as the hoarders? I simply said the prices should respond faster to the supply and demand. Yes that will make prices go up accordingly, and it will also decrease the incentive to hoard and resell. Prices of goods are already set largely by this model. For you to think that the prices responding faster to supply/demand is insane is to also suggest that all prices set by supply/demand is insane.
EdgarVerona 7y ago
This is how I feel, precisely. There are real, human consequences to these price increasing theories. It will be felt by people who are, by a large margin, not the target audience of Hacker News. It'll be felt by people who have to choose between having basic healthcare supplies and paying rent, or eating. Indeed, at that point I think rationing - either by the companies selling the product, or by the government (as we have done in times of crisis in the past) is in order. Would people be yelling about free markets like this if World War 2 happened today, and there was the kind of rationing we saw in those times? What would have happened to our country if people were so selfish back then?
- gwright 7y ago
  Letting the price float is the fastest way to discourage the hoarders and let the market come back to a sane equilibrium. By not allowing the price to float you can see that the result is empty shelves. The empty shelf is also a "real, human consequence".
  - salawat 7y ago
    The price float shouldn't happen. Furthermore, an alternative measure, social ostracization/legal pressure is being employed to remedy the situation. Existence is not the Market, and the Market does not take place in a void. You cannot reduce the world to a bunch of economic models, because at the end of the day, people will get tired of your Quant's BS and do something that generally doesn't end well for the person who ignores human nature.
    - gwright 7y ago
      The price float did not happen and what was the result? Empty shelves. Is that a satisfactory outcome from your standpoint?
      - salawat 7y ago
        Yes. Restocks will happen as quickly as possible, purchase limits will be put in place, and availability will be restored. Also, the privations created were entirely the results of these folks' poor behavior in terms of weighing the risks inherent to the logistics of their price gouging, and whether or not their sales platform would facilitate that behavior. Mayhaps they'd be well served returning their stock to the locations that actually have a local need for it seeing as otherwise, they'll have nuked the Market in their localities via a glut of supply. Their sacrifice in financially eating the cost of the extra relocation will undoubtedly weigh in on whether or not State's Attorneys General pursue prosecution, and to what degree. As a bonus, we all have a series of examples of what not to be that have soared into the limelight to remind us all that even if we are stuck in a pandemic, at least we weren't horrible enough to have to figure out what to do with more stock than we can feasibly sell or distribute for more than it cost to consolidate it into a single location because we were intending to pull one over on everyone else. Win/win. Supply goes home. Everyone reminded not to be a dick, and a few people have learned a very valuable lesson about logistics, society, the economy, and what not to do during an international fucking pandemic. Maybe no one else has to deal with the damage caused by asshole speculators.
        7y ago
jbay808 7y ago
Also, supermarket operators are not irrationally leaving free money on the table. They have their own reasons for not adjusting prices -- all the free market advocates lecturing the supermarket managers about econ 101 principles should try running a supermarket themselves, and see how kindly the market reacts to their strategy.
- eigenvector 7y ago
  Yes, unlike price-gougers supermarkets plan to still be in business after this crisis passes, and would prefer not to be known as "that company that screwed us all on basic goods during COVID-19". The money they could make today from profiteering is peanuts compared to torching their image and brand.

by altacc 7y ago

daenz 7y ago

>The idea that the correct solution to this is that supermarkets should be charging the same as the profiteering hoarders Where did I say they would charge the same as the hoarders? I simply said the prices should respond faster to the supply and demand. Yes that will make prices go up accordingly, and it will also decrease the incentive to hoard and resell. Prices of goods are already set largely by this model. For you to think that the prices responding faster to supply/demand is insane is to also suggest that all prices set by supply/demand is insane.

EdgarVerona 7y ago

This is how I feel, precisely. There are real, human consequences to these price increasing theories. It will be felt by people who are, by a large margin, not the target audience of Hacker News. It'll be felt by people who have to choose between having basic healthcare supplies and paying rent, or eating. Indeed, at that point I think rationing - either by the companies selling the product, or by the government (as we have done in times of crisis in the past) is in order. Would people be yelling about free markets like this if World War 2 happened today, and there was the kind of rationing we saw in those times? What would have happened to our country if people were so selfish back then?

gwright 7y ago
Letting the price float is the fastest way to discourage the hoarders and let the market come back to a sane equilibrium. By not allowing the price to float you can see that the result is empty shelves. The empty shelf is also a "real, human consequence".
- salawat 7y ago
  The price float shouldn't happen. Furthermore, an alternative measure, social ostracization/legal pressure is being employed to remedy the situation. Existence is not the Market, and the Market does not take place in a void. You cannot reduce the world to a bunch of economic models, because at the end of the day, people will get tired of your Quant's BS and do something that generally doesn't end well for the person who ignores human nature.
  - gwright 7y ago
    The price float did not happen and what was the result? Empty shelves. Is that a satisfactory outcome from your standpoint?
    - salawat 7y ago
      Yes. Restocks will happen as quickly as possible, purchase limits will be put in place, and availability will be restored. Also, the privations created were entirely the results of these folks' poor behavior in terms of weighing the risks inherent to the logistics of their price gouging, and whether or not their sales platform would facilitate that behavior. Mayhaps they'd be well served returning their stock to the locations that actually have a local need for it seeing as otherwise, they'll have nuked the Market in their localities via a glut of supply. Their sacrifice in financially eating the cost of the extra relocation will undoubtedly weigh in on whether or not State's Attorneys General pursue prosecution, and to what degree. As a bonus, we all have a series of examples of what not to be that have soared into the limelight to remind us all that even if we are stuck in a pandemic, at least we weren't horrible enough to have to figure out what to do with more stock than we can feasibly sell or distribute for more than it cost to consolidate it into a single location because we were intending to pull one over on everyone else. Win/win. Supply goes home. Everyone reminded not to be a dick, and a few people have learned a very valuable lesson about logistics, society, the economy, and what not to do during an international fucking pandemic. Maybe no one else has to deal with the damage caused by asshole speculators.
      - 7y ago

jbay808 7y ago

Also, supermarket operators are not irrationally leaving free money on the table. They have their own reasons for not adjusting prices -- all the free market advocates lecturing the supermarket managers about econ 101 principles should try running a supermarket themselves, and see how kindly the market reacts to their strategy.

eigenvector 7y ago
Yes, unlike price-gougers supermarkets plan to still be in business after this crisis passes, and would prefer not to be known as "that company that screwed us all on basic goods during COVID-19". The money they could make today from profiteering is peanuts compared to torching their image and brand.