4 ms·

> Your comment about not being older than 60 to get tested made me so angry and shows how fucked the US is I live in the (presumed) social democratic paradise

> Your comment about not being older than 60 to get tested made me so angry and shows how fucked the US is I live in the (presumed) social democratic paradise of Sweden where the "government" has just decided to stop testing anyone who is not already in a hospital and belongs to a risk group, i.e. anyone under ~65 years of age without any co-morbidities [1 - Swedish]. The "state epidemiologist" Anders Tegnell has other wisdom to spread to the world like the fact that a call for as many companies to have as many employees as possible working from home is "problematic" because it ends up exposing some people to more risk of infection than others and thus offset the principle of "fairness" in society [2 - Swedish]. In other words, if we can not lower the risk of exposure for everyone we should not lower the risk for anyone. He is also against school closures because children can not get infected - oh, they can? OK, because children don't get very ill - but they'll still spread the infection to those who can get very ill? OK, because some children don't have it all that nice at home so it would not be fair to them to close the schools. Again, if we can not make it better for everyone it is preferable to not do anything at all. Sweden is now coming under heavy criticism from other countries, China being one of them [3 - Swedish] when they state "Sweden has capitulated in front of the virus and stands to become a danger to other countries". This is probably part of an ongoing spat between Sweden and China where Sweden earlier criticised China's actions against a Chinese-Swedish citizen but there is no denying that the Swedish "government" has shown a lack of foresight and proactive strategies. There is a dearth of supplies, Sweden has the lowest number of hospital beds per capita in the OECD which is odd for the country with the highest taxes in the world, the health care system can not cope with the normal case load let alone with an influx of Corona-related patients. [1] https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/samhalle/a/70GQRV/nya-strategin--slutar-rakna-exakta-antalet-coronafall https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/samhalle/a/70GQRV/nya-str... [2] https://nyheteridag.se/tegnell-ojamlikt-att-spotifys-anstallda-far-jobba-hemma/ https://nyheteridag.se/tegnell-ojamlikt-att-spotifys-anstall... [3] https://www.svd.se/kina-riktar-skarp-coronakritik-mot-sverige https://www.svd.se/kina-riktar-skarp-coronakritik-mot-sverig...

ramblerman 7y ago
What an incredible imbecilic position. Of course, it's not fair that doctors and nurses, and supply chain drivers, pharmacy workers etc... can't stay home. But that is precisely why the ones who can, office workers, should stay home. For them! We are in this together. This guy should absolutely resign, apparently when asked to do so here is his response (link 2) > No. It is clear that if someone who is considered more competent than I am at dealing with this will come to accept that situation. But I think this is really fun. It sounds a bit strange, but it's a big challenge, a fantastic challenge with this kind of work. Guy sounds like an absolute moron.
Cerium 7y ago
I would argue that the most fair thing I can do is stay home. It is the most good I can do society, as each person at home is one less infection path for those who cannot stay at home.
bjourne 7y ago
Another "I'm a Swede and I hate my country" poster. I'm also Swedish so I know what you write is 100% bullshit and parroted from a bunch of right-wing sites. The reason why not everyone is offered testing is because healthcare is very accessible and free in Sweden (like it is in Denmark, Norway, and Germany too) meaning that you can't offer it to everyone who wants it. Because if you did, you would have to pointlessly test a million hypochondriacs with symptoms that have nothing to do with corona just for the sake of it. For one view on how well countries handle the epidemic, look at the fatality rate. US: 49/2195 = 2.2%, Germany: 5/3062 = 0.16%, Sweden: 2/867 = 0.23%, Norway: 1/996 = 0.10%, Frane: 79/3667 = 2.2%.
- cannabis_sam 7y ago
  Oh dear, another ”the swedish government is never wrong! (Even if I have to make up the rationalization myself)” I’m Swedish/Norwegian, and the governments have responded pretty differently. How do you know that sweden is correct and not norway/denmark?
  - bjourne 7y ago
    We will find out in three months time or so. That the countries have acted differently doesn't mean that one country is full of idiots and the others isn't.
    - cannabis_sam 7y ago
      That’s quite a different position, compared to your initial dismissal of dissent as a right wing conspiracy. (I say this as someone who is far to the left of V, FI and MP, and considers Nyheter Idag to be propaganda, but that doesn’t change the fact that Anders Tegnell actually gave that asinine answer about “jämlikhet” in an interview)
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- Yetanfou 7y ago
sjcsjc 7y ago
I believe your comment is in good faith, but I also believe you are wrong. This approach sounds very similar to the UK approach, overseen by Whitty[0] and Vallance[1], and agreed with by Neal[2] and Ferguson[3] (and I assume more but I haven't looked very hard). I don't think all these guys are morons. Well, I hope they're not. [0] Chris Whitty, UK Chief Medical Officer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Whitty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Whitty [1] Patrick Vallance, UK Chief Science Officer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Vallance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Vallance [2] Keith Neal, Professor Emeritus - Epidemiology of Infectious Diseases, Univ of Nottingham https://uk.linkedin.com/in/keith-neal-1818b391 https://uk.linkedin.com/in/keith-neal-1818b391 https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/nottingham-experts-give-views-boris-3945730 https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/nottingh... (there was a better quote on the BBC but I can't find it now) [3] Neil Ferguson, https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/neil.ferguson https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/neil.ferguson Haven't got a link but I heard him speak on UK Radio 4's Today programme this morning.
- Yetanfou 7y ago
  In what sense would my comment not be in 'good faith'? The UK allowed the Cheltenham festival [1] to take place this last week as well, attracting 250.000 visitors. The mere fact that the UK arrived at the same conclusions as Sweden does not make those conclusions any more valid or wise. [1] https://cheltenhamfestivaluk.com/ https://cheltenhamfestivaluk.com/
  - sjcsjc 7y ago
    Yeah, fair enough, my good faith line was a bit pointless. I was just trying to be nice before disagreeing with you. Ham-fisted of me. I was (quite vociferously) of your opinion till Boris Johnson's press conference on Thursday. I changed my mind during it listening to Whitty and Vallance explain their strategy. I now think it makes sense.
    - Yetanfou 7y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE Dr. John Campbell goes into the contradiction between the approach used in e.g. Sweden and the UK vs. that advocated by the WHO. He is with the WHO on this point, as am I. In a few months time we'll know which approach worked best.
CogitoCogito 7y ago
It’s obvious that China’s criticism are just a continuation of the spat between China and Sweden. It’s also clearly an attempt to continue shifting blame away from China whose government did a terrible job for the first month. The weird idea that China did well due to their draconian measures after doing so poorly is historical whitewashing. Regardless I do feel like that idiot needs to resign and that Sweden needs to take this more seriously. Though I guess that’ll happen out of necessity in a week anyway.

ramblerman 7y ago

What an incredible imbecilic position. Of course, it's not fair that doctors and nurses, and supply chain drivers, pharmacy workers etc... can't stay home. But that is precisely why the ones who can, office workers, should stay home. For them! We are in this together. This guy should absolutely resign, apparently when asked to do so here is his response (link 2) > No. It is clear that if someone who is considered more competent than I am at dealing with this will come to accept that situation. But I think this is really fun. It sounds a bit strange, but it's a big challenge, a fantastic challenge with this kind of work. Guy sounds like an absolute moron.

Cerium 7y ago

I would argue that the most fair thing I can do is stay home. It is the most good I can do society, as each person at home is one less infection path for those who cannot stay at home.

bjourne 7y ago

Another "I'm a Swede and I hate my country" poster. I'm also Swedish so I know what you write is 100% bullshit and parroted from a bunch of right-wing sites. The reason why not everyone is offered testing is because healthcare is very accessible and free in Sweden (like it is in Denmark, Norway, and Germany too) meaning that you can't offer it to everyone who wants it. Because if you did, you would have to pointlessly test a million hypochondriacs with symptoms that have nothing to do with corona just for the sake of it. For one view on how well countries handle the epidemic, look at the fatality rate. US: 49/2195 = 2.2%, Germany: 5/3062 = 0.16%, Sweden: 2/867 = 0.23%, Norway: 1/996 = 0.10%, Frane: 79/3667 = 2.2%.

cannabis_sam 7y ago
Oh dear, another ”the swedish government is never wrong! (Even if I have to make up the rationalization myself)” I’m Swedish/Norwegian, and the governments have responded pretty differently. How do you know that sweden is correct and not norway/denmark?
- bjourne 7y ago
  We will find out in three months time or so. That the countries have acted differently doesn't mean that one country is full of idiots and the others isn't.
  - cannabis_sam 7y ago
    That’s quite a different position, compared to your initial dismissal of dissent as a right wing conspiracy. (I say this as someone who is far to the left of V, FI and MP, and considers Nyheter Idag to be propaganda, but that doesn’t change the fact that Anders Tegnell actually gave that asinine answer about “jämlikhet” in an interview)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
Yetanfou 7y ago

sjcsjc 7y ago

I believe your comment is in good faith, but I also believe you are wrong. This approach sounds very similar to the UK approach, overseen by Whitty[0] and Vallance[1], and agreed with by Neal[2] and Ferguson[3] (and I assume more but I haven't looked very hard). I don't think all these guys are morons. Well, I hope they're not. [0] Chris Whitty, UK Chief Medical Officer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Whitty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Whitty [1] Patrick Vallance, UK Chief Science Officer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Vallance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Vallance [2] Keith Neal, Professor Emeritus - Epidemiology of Infectious Diseases, Univ of Nottingham https://uk.linkedin.com/in/keith-neal-1818b391 https://uk.linkedin.com/in/keith-neal-1818b391 https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/nottingham-experts-give-views-boris-3945730 https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/nottingh... (there was a better quote on the BBC but I can't find it now) [3] Neil Ferguson, https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/neil.ferguson https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/neil.ferguson Haven't got a link but I heard him speak on UK Radio 4's Today programme this morning.

Yetanfou 7y ago
In what sense would my comment not be in 'good faith'? The UK allowed the Cheltenham festival [1] to take place this last week as well, attracting 250.000 visitors. The mere fact that the UK arrived at the same conclusions as Sweden does not make those conclusions any more valid or wise. [1] https://cheltenhamfestivaluk.com/ https://cheltenhamfestivaluk.com/
- sjcsjc 7y ago
  Yeah, fair enough, my good faith line was a bit pointless. I was just trying to be nice before disagreeing with you. Ham-fisted of me. I was (quite vociferously) of your opinion till Boris Johnson's press conference on Thursday. I changed my mind during it listening to Whitty and Vallance explain their strategy. I now think it makes sense.
  - Yetanfou 7y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE Dr. John Campbell goes into the contradiction between the approach used in e.g. Sweden and the UK vs. that advocated by the WHO. He is with the WHO on this point, as am I. In a few months time we'll know which approach worked best.

CogitoCogito 7y ago

It’s obvious that China’s criticism are just a continuation of the spat between China and Sweden. It’s also clearly an attempt to continue shifting blame away from China whose government did a terrible job for the first month. The weird idea that China did well due to their draconian measures after doing so poorly is historical whitewashing. Regardless I do feel like that idiot needs to resign and that Sweden needs to take this more seriously. Though I guess that’ll happen out of necessity in a week anyway.