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Ask HN: People are panic buying. What to do?

• erentz 7y ago
  > I am very much against it since it’s a very illogical thing to do. And that’s why the shelves are empty now and you have this problem. Panic is good. EARLY “panic” is the best. It leads to preparedness and less panic later when things are tough and it would cause more problems. When I was telling people five weeks ago to start preparing now by building up their supplies because this is the real deal I was laughed at by a few and told to “stop panicking”. A few others listened and they’re not panicked now. If everyone had listened and done the responsible thing of building up their supplies over those few weeks you wouldn’t see this problem. Now is a better time than never to start preparing up in case you have to spend some time stuck inside. The supply chains are still working fine for super markets so you’ll see the stock on shelves continue to build back up.
• moandcompany 7y ago
  It's only "panic buying" for the people that aren't prepared.
• ashildr 7y ago
  There is panic buying and there is being prepared. We started buying more of the usual stuff we use about 4(?) weeks ago. We agreed, that the situation looked dangerous in january and considered triggers for different actions. So we now can decide to go shopping, still go to the market, but de don’t have to go to closed, crowded places. We were able to do this because we followed “real news” and have a background in science and we didn’t let our friends tell us “it’s not going to be bad!” without having a point. Is is a calm and rational process of risk assessment and mitigation. If you see people stocking up on water in my area, _that’s_ panic buying. Scenarios for extended failure of the grid or water supply is implausible. The risk of running out of food for extended periods of time is low in my area. These people realize that they slacked and now they are still uninformed. The only thing that helps against panic buyng is education and information.
• alkonaut 7y ago
  So long as there are no major supply disruptions (which we have little reason to believe there will be), you’ll see full shelves of fresh produce while the frozen and canned sections are bare. Eat fresh food and buy some cans when you see them. I doubt anyone will go hungry because of this.
• wyiske 7y ago
  Since this thing isn’t going away in the next 2 weeks, seems illogical to buy too much. The advice is to buy 2 weeks of supplies in case you’re infected and can’t leave the house. People would need 6+ months worth of supplies, and even then would get infected once they came out of hibernation. The smart thing is for people to start thinking longer term for now. As for the solution, try buy slightly more than you usually would, until the panic buying is over. Try smaller shops and chat to owners about when they will have stock?
• furyofantares 7y ago
  At some point you may wish to not go to the grocery store for 2-3 weeks, either because you get sick, or because too much of the population may be contagious, which could be right now depending on where you are and whether you are high risk. So it makes sense to have a few weeks of supplies even if normally you just get what you need as you need it on a much shorter timeframe. If we want to kill this virus, or flatten the curve, we can do a lot by simply going out less. That means fewer trips to the store, which means bigger purchases each trip. This is a good idea right now even if there are no confirmed cases in your area yet. Stock up, let grocery stores restock for people who waited, get ready, get the right habits now that let you stay out of public, and reduce the potential spread now. Buying a gorillion bottles of hand sanitizer is of course not helping and selfish. But stocking up on things you will use and reducing time in public is a good idea.
• olalonde 7y ago
  It's not that irrational. First thing that comes to mind is you might want to minimize times you have to leave the house or prepare yourself for the eventuality of a quarantine.
• nabla9 7y ago
  You many run out of things temporarily until more deliveries arrive and they stack the shelves. There will be no long term shortages. It's a good idea to buy and store some durable supplies because you may need to self quarantine for few weeks. It's also a good idea to shop less frequently and buy more at once to avoid getting infection. It's unfortunate that everyone decides to do it at the same time. 'I need to do something to protect my family' is very core need under threat. When there is little you can do, you take little more toilet paper so that you have done something. It's both silly and very human.
  • fbernier 7y ago
    The "until more deliveries arrive" is at most the next day. The supply chain for grocery stores is very, very good and we are not even close to lacking of anything.
    • phpnode 7y ago
      Depends where you are, here in the UK even wholesalers which supply smaller grocery stores are rationing things like toilet paper, pasta, flour etc.
    • whichquestion 7y ago
      In the short term, shelves will probably take some time to be adequately restocked from all the panic buying. Grocery supply chains are good, but if people are continuing to panic buy things, then it will be difficult for the grocers to keep their shelves full. Also, if grocery store workers start to become sick en masse, then it might become more difficult for the grocery stores to stock shelves.
    • ksdale 7y ago
      Just FYI, I live near Seattle, and the grocery stores around here have been out of many things for a week. I'm sure they've been restocking in the meanwhile, but we haven't been able to get a few things.
    • gremlinsinc 7y ago
      I live in a town w/ 3 grocery stores and a lot of rural suburbs w/out any. (Cedar City, UT)... when there's panics, even a snowstorm, the supply chain breaks down fast. This is epic levels... I like to have some 'easy' comfort food like instant oatmeal, and had to go to all 3 stores to find some and it wasn't my go to quaker oats maple/brown sugar but I took 2 weeks worth anyways. Canned goods were gone... I can't find dinty moore anywhere after 5 different attempts over a week, I gave up. I got plenty of junk food, some stuff to last me till my wife gets back in town to cook us food, and we have lots of meat stocked up from her parent's hunt last year. We won't starve, but w/ restaurants closing, this will hurt a lot who eat out a lot. It's not like they even get the benefit of 'saving money' since they now are likely temporarily laid off without income... I know for a fact the supplies were replenished, but then unplenished at least 1-2 times in past week. Small town problems, at least social distancing is easier when there's not a lot to do that isn't four wheeling or hunting, or fishing which is already pretty seclusive.
• photawe 7y ago
  These are not ordinary times. Seems that it takes quite a lot of time for a lot of people to grasp the severity of the situation. My take is that in the near term (1-2 months), there will be a shortage of a lot of produce, especially food. I really hope I'm wrong. I suggest you stock up everything for 2-4 weeks - it's something I've done. My plan is to go out buying every 2 weeks or so.
  • david-gpu 7y ago
    > My take is that in the near term (1-2 months), there will be a shortage of a lot of produce I say this from a place of kindness and compassion: this is the sort of mindset we should avoid. It's understandable to have fear of an unknown situation, but look at the available data. Even in places with large outbreaks, grocery stores have continued delivering all essentials to the population. Ensuring you have some food for the next couple of weeks (not the next couple of months/years) makes sense in case you need to self-isolate. That's about it.
    • ma2rten 7y ago
      We have yet to see most of the impact of supply chain disruption from China. That alone is going to impact most businesses. If in addition to that a lot of people in your own country are going to be sick or quarantined, I don't think we can assume things are going to work out the same as before.
      • robjan 7y ago
        How much food is actually imported from China into your country?
        • ma2rten 7y ago
          It's not about food, but about things like parts for machines needed to make that food.
    • remote_phone 7y ago
• bfieidhbrjr 7y ago
  Why is it illogical? Often there is a deeper logic than what appears on the surface. Nassim Taleb pointed out on twitter recently that when interest rates are zero (in reality negative with inflation), buying tons of non-perishable goods isn't really that bad of an idea. The time value of the money is arguably better sitting in toilet paper than cash. To answer your question, yes it really is possible that we run out of basic goods. That's why people are "panicking". Personally I don't see it as super likely, but you could reasonably argue that it's probable.
  • robjan 7y ago
    There are other investment vehicles than cash and toilet paper. One's that are actually productive.
    • bfieidhbrjr 7y ago
      /r/wallstreetbets would love to know what those are right now?
      • robjan 7y ago
        wsb is about speculation, not investing. This straw man doesn't diminish my argument.
  • emsign 7y ago
    Yes, the supply chains can be disrupted. Of course the governments will make sure that grocery stores, pharmacies and trucks for food delivers will still be open or be able to pass borders. But unforseen events can make it so you local grocery store has close or runs out. I've had people I know infected with the virus and I know even more people who can't come to work, because of some other events, like Kindergardens closing, so they have to stay at home to watch their kids. It's not always as simple as "no more flour", it can be an unforseen event that can hit you hard.
• emsign 7y ago
  I hate it when people call it panic buying. It's not a panic. People are preparing themselves to have food for 2 weeks. That's what you should do as well. In fact what everyone should have done is stockpiling gradually over the last couple of weeks. I went grocery shopping today and I only had to buy a few things because I was already prepared when there was still enough in the stores. Be smart, think about what you need to get by without being able to go to the store for 2 weeks. I see lots of people buying stuff like bread, but you don't wanna eat bread all the time, do you? Also it goes bad pretty quickly. I think most of the bread that has been bought will end up in the dumpster.
  • outoftheabyss 7y ago
    You are talking as though the world is going to end for 2 weeks. It’s not
    • emsign 7y ago
      One of my colleagues has been infected, it's another department, so we aren't doing home office yet, but if just one of the people I came in direct contact with was also infected, I have to stay at home for two weeks. I get grounded for 2 weeks, I can't even go outside to buy food. That's a real possibility for me. No, the world isn't going to end for 2 weeks, but I might run out of food during that time. And I don't want that. People think it cannot affect them until it does.
  • deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  • GuiA 7y ago
    You can easily freeze bread.
    • ISL 7y ago
      You can also easily make bread if you have an oven. This recipe requires flour, salt, yeast, and water, almost no work, and time. https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/11376-no-knead-bread https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/11376-no-knead-bread I've been baking more in the past week than in the past five years. Being cooped up at home goes better with fresh bread every day.
• theseadroid 7y ago
  Humans are not logical animals. There's a lot of criticism on modelling human making logical decisions in economics. In some other fields humans are modelled as fluids or herds, devoid of individual judgement/decision making. Some items will be restocked, some others may not due to supply chain disruption. Look online for DIY solutions or alternatives as there are plenty. In some cities Asian supermarkets might be a viable option since many Asians have stocked up like weeks ago and they avoid crowded places now.
  • akga 7y ago
    > In some other fields humans are modelled as fluids or herds, devoid of individual judgement/decision making From a game theory perspective, following the herd in this case could be the rational choice on an individual level even if you have decision making. If enough people think there's a shortage coming, and they stock up in preparation for it, then you get an actual shortage as a result. In this scenario, there's very little potential downside to stocking up (at least for non-perishables) from your perspective, since even if you're wrong then you're just saving a few trips to the supermarket in the near future, and you might even get a discount if you buy in bulk (incl. saving gas, time, etc). But there is a potential downside to not stocking up, since you then risk not being able to later find the item when need it again, or having to pay more for it if you do find it. Going further, if you think that other people are going to start panic buying, then it makes sense for you to do so as well. But by doing so you also contribute to causing the shortage, leading to a self fulfilling prophesy. So I don't think it's necessarily that people aren't being logical, but more that they're acting based on limited information.
• _bxg1 7y ago
  Stock up a modest amount yourself. If people are manufacturing a shortage by panic-buying, then you don't need to do the same thing, but you do need to prepare for that manufactured shortage itself. We made sure we've got a week or two's worth of stuff we already use. I bought an extra pack of toilet paper; I didn't shovel the entire shelf into my cart.
• hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  Since there is no fundamental supply issue (at least for items like groceries and toilet paper) this will follow the same curve as other "panic buying" - stores will be pretty barren for about a week or so, then everyone will realize it's not Armageddon and go on normally. The exact same thing happened a couple years ago WRT gas in Texas. There was no actual shortage, but because of the hurricane there was fear buying that there would be a shortage, so people showed up to gas stations literally filling up garbage cans with gas, and then there was an actual shortage. If possible, though, I would definitely recommend stocking up on essentials when things get back to normal. I'm not worried about doomsday, just irrational humans clearing out the shelves at the slightest hit of a negative event.
  • selim_tiotoys 7y ago
    Funny how your last paragraph makes all of the above sounds irrelevant. That's the exact same rational - emotional chain "panic buyers" went through.
    • hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
      Not at all. That's like telling people it's irrational to buy a fire extinguisher. Point is going out a buying all the fire extinguishers when there is a mass panic is dumb. Time to take reasonable precautions is in normal times, and I'm not talking about filling a floor in your house with TP, either.
  • Fnoord 7y ago
    There's certain foods which are useful to have in larger amounts, and there's certain foods which are perishable. It makes sense to ensure you have some supply of the former, and it makes sense there's on short-term a higher demand than supply for these. For perishable products, it does not make sense, though I myself own for example a dehydrator with which I'm able to ensure perishable foods become less perishable.
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• troughway 7y ago
  >What would the sane way to go about it? Plan for at least a week, if not two ahead. This depends on the number of people in the household. >Is it really possible that we can run out of things like milk and diapers nowadays? 1. Someone correct me if I am wrong but cargo transports haven't stopped (ships, planes, trucks, trains). These things will keep coming in and stocking up the necessary stores. 2. People will stock up at once and then the craze will subside. 3. Just-In-Time works great when things go well, not so great when things aren't going well. Countries have warehouses stocked with (non-perishable?) food in case things don't go well. >This is the first time I'm seeing this happen in my life :( When this whole thing is over, go and volunteer in some third-world backwater shithole of a country and help them out. For many parts of the world, this blip of a "food shortage crisis" is the standard fare, along with a general lack of, well, everything. Also, a good portion of the western population does not know how to cook, or has a very limited range of cooking, baking and food preparation skills. Something to consider.
  • freediver 7y ago
    Calling any country a “shithole” place is a terrible insult for its population.
    • troughway 7y ago
      No, not at all. Just pointing out the unsanitary situation that is the norm for these countries.
      • deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      • mthoms 7y ago
        You've just proven you can get the exact same point across without being offensive (and quite frankly, a little bit juvenile).
  • ThrowawayR2 7y ago
    > "Plan for at least a week, if not two ahead." 30-60 days would be a safer bet, plus a little extra to help out friends and neighbors who failed to prepare. That isn't to say that the current panic buying is justified but that, in general, that's how long it seems to take before relief efforts fully come online in the event of a disaster and should therefore be the normal standard for preparedness. > "Someone correct me if I am wrong but cargo transports haven't stopped (ships, planes, trucks, trains). These things will keep coming in and stocking up the necessary stores. This hasn't occurred domestically and it's likely that stores will be continued to be stocked for the moment. In the intermediate term, reportedly freight shipping from China seems to have slowed drastically (e.g. https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/03/13/coronavirus-oakland-port-imports-slump-amid-china-factory-cuts/ https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/03/13/coronavirus-oakland-... and https://www.seattletimes.com/business/international-trade/seattle-cargo-terminals-close-amid-coronavirus-linked-shipping-decline/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/international-trade/se... Disable Javascript to get around the paywall.) and this might (emphasis on might) eventually have cascading effects on even products from the domestic manufacturing chain depending on how long production and shipping from China takes to be restored. Even if a product's primary components are domestically produced (toilet paper seemingly being the canonical example these days), the machinery, packaging, etc. may depend on supplies or replacement parts from overseas.
• johnstorey 7y ago
  I would assume that you will have basic utilities without interruption -- water, electricity. Supply chains could, theoretically, have disruptions as the disease runs through the world. I am not saying they will; just that they can. If it happens the affect on you and yours of not having extra is extremely significant. That's enough of a reason to buy what you can. You cannot go back and time, but after things settle down (they will) look at your budget and what it takes to have a couple of weeks extra of necessary items. It's not super expensive to buy rice and beans if you are on a budget, then rotate your supply when the rice starts to get old. If you have more money you can get something with less monotonous flavor: canned food, dehydrated, freeze dried, whatever. You may need it twice in your life, but when you do, it will be the wisest thing you have every done.
• Fnoord 7y ago
  Its easy to judge other people without knowing their situation. It depends on where you are, and how far the virus is in your country/state/city/region. It also depends on if you can order groceries online and have them delivered. Though there might be extra costs attached and there's possibly environmental impact I believe this to be the best method to avoid further infections. If you prepare to have the virus, or to avoid getting it, going less to grocery store and making sure you got a supply makes sense. We're currently ill (probably not COVID-19) and my daughter of 2 had diarrhea and vomiting. I made sure she got enough pain relievers, because our supply was running out. There is also a large difference between buying a little bit more supplies, and buying very large amounts...
  • ThrowawayR2 7y ago
    > "It also depends on if you can order groceries online and have them delivered." Regarding this, it's worth remembering that an ill packer or delivery driver can contaminate your delivery as well. Hand-washing, etc. after handling delivered groceries (or mail, for that matter) may be warranted for high risk individuals in areas known to have ongoing spread of COVID-19.
• ISL 7y ago
  We are not going to run out of most groceries. The primary advantage of stocking up is to make it possible to stay home. If you don't have Covid-19, staying home limits your risk of getting it and then passing it on. If you do catch it, having enough supplies to manage a mild case at home also limits the likelihood of passing it on. As long as community transmission is low in your area, stocking up today in order to be able to stay home for the next couple of weeks seems to make sense. This is a collective fight. The average person can aid the global effort through the simple effort of avoiding in-person human contact. (Reaching out electronically can help us feel connected, too!)
• alicestyles 7y ago
  this is a worldwide problem at the moment.
• jcheong0428 7y ago
  Actually seems like a pretty rational thing to do. People will stay home more, cook more frequently, and obviously need more toilet paper than usual (especially when the entire family starts staying home more). Most importantly, people probably prefer to go shopping less frequently so you naturally end up buying more each time. As mentioned, it's unfortunate everyone's doing it at the same time.
• ksec 7y ago
  Tell them you have no capacity problem. You are raising capacity. Rise the price by 30%+, the reason for that would be to cover up additional cost you have and make people think a bit before they panic buy. Rank up production to absolute maximum given the time allowed. That basically means factory running 24/7. Absolutely flood the market with excess stocks. Some people have more toilet paper than they need for the rest of their life. Some of them has hundreds rolls of toilet paper. You want SPAM? Great, have cartons of SPAM, lets play the game of Supply and Demand and see if you have more buying power than my capacity. The simple lesson is, idiots and selfish people are everywhere. ( Nothing wrong with keeping two weeks worth of stock, but right now people are buying for the sake of buying ) So what hasn't this happen? The answer is Lead time. Not only in capacity but in decision making. As far as I am aware NO manufacturers to date have risen capacity when they were given prior notice. They only raise when the stock were running dry, and there were real incentives to do so. The decision of that has also taken days if not weeks till action, which is very long in consumer's view perspective. Look at Hong Kong and Taiwan. Shops now have years wroth of stocks in hand cleaning and washing solutions. They only capacity constraint we have right now is Mask.
• Havoc 7y ago
  I haven't seen any panic buying yet. Pretty sure the shop downstairs even has toilet paper. I got ~month of Mana powdered meals just in case though.
• jacknews 7y ago
  it's not illogical at all If everyone else is likely to 'stock up' and therefore cause shortages, the only logical thing to do is also 'stock up', before there are shortages and you can't get things you need.
• haunter 7y ago
  >I am very much against it since it's a very illogical thing to do. OP I wish you to never experience a natural disaster. This is nothing compared to those.
• superasn 7y ago
  Thanks everyone for your replies. It does give me clarity and I feel that it wouldn't hurt me to buy 2 weeks supply of super essential things esp baby products. I used to buy them like this before anyway, but something just felt wrong doing it today when supplies are running so low for everyone.
• datacy 7y ago
  I think there is a difference between a famine and a virus pandemic. We don't have a shortage of food (at least not yet in the UK). It may get there over time if more people get ill and food and basic supplies get affected as a result. Gradually buying food and buying a bit of a buffer is possibly okay. But buying an entire trolly of toilet papers (I saw a woman buying 20 large packets of toilet papers today, enough to last 2 people 2 months I'd say) is possibly putting unnecessary strains on supermarkets and the supply chain in general. I spoke to the managers at my local supermarket today and asked them if they can place a threshold on certain essential items (for example if you buy more than 3 packets of toilet papers in one go, you have to pay a premium for the 4th packet) - that way people will really think about whether they truly need everything they are buying and possibly think twice before unnecessarily panic buying. It is important to think about how our actions will impact others as well I think.
  • moepstar 7y ago
    Care to share the answer you received?
    • datacy 7y ago
      Having spoken to the local staff at Waitrose, there is no shortage of supply (as of yet). The shortage comes from them not being able to refill stock from their warehouse fast enough due to the unprecedented demand. They are also constrained by their business model. Supermarket shelf spaces are super competitive and expensive, with many products fighting for exposure. So, they maintain a tight refill schedule, which is difficult to alter in a short time. They also have little capacity to fill all shelf spaces with essentials, as they still have to stock and display certain non-essential items (even if these are not in demand) contractually or otherwise. The general gist of it is that they have enough in the warehouses, and even though they can add 2x more, they are not prepared for every single person stocking up 3 months worth of essentials in one go. In my local Waitrose, they've already limited the purchase of toilet papers to max 2 packs per person and pasta to 3 packs per person. I believe all supermarkets in the UK have already released a statement requesting people to be more considerate when buying essential items, so maybe that will encourage people to not stock up to the extent they are.
• baq 7y ago
  Logic flows from axioms, consider axioms that these other people believe in. It may well be that it’s a perfectly logical things to do.
• taborj 7y ago
  There were similar situations during Y2K, which my friend reminded me was a generation ago now, so many younger folks don't remember. As others have said, this is a temporary blip, but when things are restocked, you should build up your supply. The ideal thing is to build it up slowly over weeks or month, and always have a rotating supply (make sure you use and replace items before they expire).
• smdz 7y ago
  When hikers or travelers are beginners, have you seen how much more (or not enough) they pack? With experience or guidance they tend to pack lighter. In the current case, some are concerned, some are waiting to survive a doomsday, some watched the Contagion movie, some are hoping to make money. A sane way: For Covid-19, one has to be prepared with basics(food, water, soap, fever-reducing-medicines) for somewhere between 14-27 days of home quarantine (or curfews). And not just assume by default that administration will crumble - they are usually there when you need the basics, except for countries where it has been proven otherwise. Many things that people are stocking up are non-essentials i.e. replaceable with other less comfy methods. After this is over, the govt. administration can attempt to advertise/educate some preparations for the next unforeseen times. Over a longer period that becomes a cultural habit. I do not understand why people take unprescribed medicines, especially antivirals as prevention, when that could clearly disturb human microbiome and open up for infections.
• ashildr 7y ago
  Shower thought: if you can’t actually cook and improvise but are used to have access to industrially prepared food, being prepared to stay at home for a few weeks is way more complicated.
• jjav 7y ago
  Preparation and panic are not the same. Do not expect to rely on conveniences like deliveries, they are merely conveniences and can stop. It is very possible to run out access to necessities. I don't believe food itself will be in any significant shortage, but you might not get to it. If you fall sick, you'll need to self-isolate and not leave the house for several weeks. So you need to be ready to do so. Even if you remain healthy, access to supermarkets may have restrictions (see Italy today). While you can get food, you might need to line up for a few hours, increasing your exposure. Best to have a few weeks of food at home for when your area is in this stage. The alternative to preparation is to wait until you need to panic. Not recommended.
• Ghjklov 7y ago
  Anyone who calls you stupid for being vigilant and preparing for the worse, are just as likely to call you stupid for not preparing if disaster does strike. It looks like many people prefer to be stupid and fed, than stupid and hungry.
• TrueNomad 7y ago
  Today, first time in my life, thanks to my wife's blind fury imagination assuming we will starve, I have spent close to $400 on groceries which in any normal day I wouldn't imagine buying. But at the end of the day it is a small price to pay and play to her hand than resisting to go shopping and spend the day fighting. And in my opinion, it is not going to be as bad as people think. We will not go to using leafs as toilet paper. Store supplies will return to normalcy in a week or two. And god know we all have enough pasta and ragu to tide us 2 weeks in any pantry nowadays. If you don't, may be you should, especially considering eating out is rolling the dice a tad riskier than I would like to take. I have shopped at a walmart super center and a supertarget right across the road from that and first time in my life i have seen walmart out of bread and there was a 200+ people line inside the store waiting for a package of toilet paper. It is just widespread panic and I believe it is for nothing. When I lived in Atlanta GA, I used to laugh at the women loading up their carts with 15 gallons of milk and 30 loaves of bread because the weather man said it was going to flurry tonight. In Atlanta, snow falls one or two days tops in whole winter and stays on the ground 4-6 hours and you fight the slush for the next two days, before everything goes back to normal. Today I remembered thise scenes and looked at my shopping cart. Thanks to my wife, I turned to one of those ladies.
• igetspam 7y ago
  Toilet papwr, bananas and carrots were all gona at my local store. I got everything else I'd planned. I'm not panicking about TP. I spent like $45 on a couple more bidet seats for my house and we're all using them. It's more environmentally friendly and I don't have to worry about hoarders. We've had a bread machine for a while, so we use that a lot. We don't have cow milk in the house anyway. I have pet chickens and if we need to, we can eat the eggs. We have a mostly vegetarian diet and the meat alternatives aren't flying off the shelves. Just need to find some carrots and bananas...