3 ms·

Anti-gouging laws are seldom enforced and are of dubious constitutional basis. I'm entirely for them, but I doubt this guy is going to be convicted of anything.

Anti-gouging laws are seldom enforced and are of dubious constitutional basis. I'm entirely for them, but I doubt this guy is going to be convicted of anything. We had a similar case in Canada where a Vancouver couple talked to a newspaper about their enterprise and it just left me pondering what they thought the outcome would be. People respecting their "hustle" and business savvy?

eesmith 7y ago
Wage theft is also seldom enforced. That doesn't make wage theft right. That is, I don't see what that has to do with anything. Anti-gouging laws are applied (it seems) after every major hurricane. I hear the news talk about how to report gouging incidents, for example. Prosecutions occur often enough that I'm surprised to hear you say they don't have a constitutional basis. Surely that would have been tested by now (and from what I can tell, it has, and not found to be unconstitutional). Yes, there are limits on what the state can do with regards to interstate trade. But most anti-gouging laws are state laws, and not really subject to direct US Federal Constitution limits. So, could you explain more about how they are dubious?
- endorphone 7y ago
  "Wage theft is also seldom enforced." I responded to someone who claimed that what he is doing "could get him convicted of crimes in several states". While he could potentially face sanction, he isn't going to be convicted of anything. "But most anti-gouging laws are state laws, and not really subject to direct US Federal Constitution limits." Are you seriously arguing that state laws aren't subject to the constitution? What a wild discussion. The number of actual convictions from these laws are absolutely minuscule, targeted only at major players, and a number of them fell on a constitutional challenge. "Prosecutions occur often enough" No, no they don't. You could count them on one hand. Don't confuse the big show about such laws with actual enforcement of them -- most such laws aren't even written to be enforceable (South Carolina, for instance, bans "unconscionable" pricing, which is legally meaningless). They are a showy discouragement and public placation. Let me go back to your first paragraph- "That doesn't make wage theft right." [arguing by association that I'm somehow saying that price gouging is right] Apologies for the (necessary) wording, but fuck that disingenuous, obnoxious strawman. Nowhere did I say it was right. It is heinous. It is socially reprehensible. It is obnoxious behavior, and hopefully as supplies equalize this asshole and everyone like him are caught with a garage full of these things. But if people depend upon the law to discourage people this they're going to be disappointed.
  - eesmith 7y ago
    I can't help but think you seriously misinterpreted what I wrote. At the very least, I am unable to interpret your response. I will pick two specific things: "Are you seriously arguing that state laws aren't subject to the constitution?" My question, restated, is what part of the US constitution do you think prohibits anti-gouging laws? Is it the commerce clause? Is it a civil rights violation? As a concrete example, Maryland's price gouging law concerning generic drug pricing was found unconstitutional in 2018, because of its effect on interstate commerce - http://www.fdalawblog.net/2018/04/fourth-circuit-finds-maryland-price-gouging-law-unconstitutional/ http://www.fdalawblog.net/2018/04/fourth-circuit-finds-maryl... . However, the anti-gouging laws discussed here are not interstate commerce. So, what is non-constitutional argument you refer to? "You could count [prosecutions] on one hand." Really? What is the basis for your statement? DDG quickly helped me find the following 6 links, including one mentioning 15 lawsuits in Florida and another how '78 gas stations and other businesses gouged customers' in Georgia and had to pay fines. 1. "John Shepperson was one of the "gougers" authorities arrested" - https://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1954352&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1954352&page=1 2. "The Sonoma County District Attorney's Office has filed three misdemeanor price gouging complaints against six landlords who allegedly raised home rental prices more than 10 percent after a declaration of emergency during the North Bay wildfires in October." - https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/six-santa-rosa-landlords-face-prosecution-for-price-gouging-during-north-bay-fires-emergency/39785/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/six-santa-rosa-landlor... 3. "One man was even arrested for charging an elderly woman $18,000 to remove two fallen trees — the equivalent of nearly $29,000 today — according to a 1996 News & Observer article." - https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article218258000.html https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/articl... 4. "So far, the Governor’s Office of Consumer Affairs has probed 197 of those complaints and determined that 78 gas stations and other businesses gouged customers. Those businesses agreed to pay Georgia tens of thousands of dollars in fines and offer refunds to victims for overcharges." - https://www.ajc.com/news/local/refunds-promised-for-gas-gouging-rare/LH31ViCWlIDLAA7VpA5BqI/ https://www.ajc.com/news/local/refunds-promised-for-gas-goug... 5. "NC attorney general files lawsuit against tree company over alleged price gouging in Wilmington" - https://www.wral.com/attorney-general-josh-stein-filed-a-lawsuit-against-arborist-in-wilmington/17882199/ https://www.wral.com/attorney-general-josh-stein-filed-a-law... 6. "Since Attorney General Charlie Crist took office in 2002, the state has launched 72 formal investigations of alleged gouging and filed 15 lawsuits. “In 2004 and 2005, with each successive storm we saw fewer and fewer complaints about price gouging,” said Crist spokeswoman JoAnn Carrin. The law, she said, is having a deterrent effect." - http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12498071/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/what-price-gouging-can-it-be-stopped/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12498071/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/w...

eesmith 7y ago

Wage theft is also seldom enforced. That doesn't make wage theft right. That is, I don't see what that has to do with anything. Anti-gouging laws are applied (it seems) after every major hurricane. I hear the news talk about how to report gouging incidents, for example. Prosecutions occur often enough that I'm surprised to hear you say they don't have a constitutional basis. Surely that would have been tested by now (and from what I can tell, it has, and not found to be unconstitutional). Yes, there are limits on what the state can do with regards to interstate trade. But most anti-gouging laws are state laws, and not really subject to direct US Federal Constitution limits. So, could you explain more about how they are dubious?

endorphone 7y ago
"Wage theft is also seldom enforced." I responded to someone who claimed that what he is doing "could get him convicted of crimes in several states". While he could potentially face sanction, he isn't going to be convicted of anything. "But most anti-gouging laws are state laws, and not really subject to direct US Federal Constitution limits." Are you seriously arguing that state laws aren't subject to the constitution? What a wild discussion. The number of actual convictions from these laws are absolutely minuscule, targeted only at major players, and a number of them fell on a constitutional challenge. "Prosecutions occur often enough" No, no they don't. You could count them on one hand. Don't confuse the big show about such laws with actual enforcement of them -- most such laws aren't even written to be enforceable (South Carolina, for instance, bans "unconscionable" pricing, which is legally meaningless). They are a showy discouragement and public placation. Let me go back to your first paragraph- "That doesn't make wage theft right." [arguing by association that I'm somehow saying that price gouging is right] Apologies for the (necessary) wording, but fuck that disingenuous, obnoxious strawman. Nowhere did I say it was right. It is heinous. It is socially reprehensible. It is obnoxious behavior, and hopefully as supplies equalize this asshole and everyone like him are caught with a garage full of these things. But if people depend upon the law to discourage people this they're going to be disappointed.
- eesmith 7y ago
  I can't help but think you seriously misinterpreted what I wrote. At the very least, I am unable to interpret your response. I will pick two specific things: "Are you seriously arguing that state laws aren't subject to the constitution?" My question, restated, is what part of the US constitution do you think prohibits anti-gouging laws? Is it the commerce clause? Is it a civil rights violation? As a concrete example, Maryland's price gouging law concerning generic drug pricing was found unconstitutional in 2018, because of its effect on interstate commerce - http://www.fdalawblog.net/2018/04/fourth-circuit-finds-maryland-price-gouging-law-unconstitutional/ http://www.fdalawblog.net/2018/04/fourth-circuit-finds-maryl... . However, the anti-gouging laws discussed here are not interstate commerce. So, what is non-constitutional argument you refer to? "You could count [prosecutions] on one hand." Really? What is the basis for your statement? DDG quickly helped me find the following 6 links, including one mentioning 15 lawsuits in Florida and another how '78 gas stations and other businesses gouged customers' in Georgia and had to pay fines. 1. "John Shepperson was one of the "gougers" authorities arrested" - https://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1954352&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1954352&page=1 2. "The Sonoma County District Attorney's Office has filed three misdemeanor price gouging complaints against six landlords who allegedly raised home rental prices more than 10 percent after a declaration of emergency during the North Bay wildfires in October." - https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/six-santa-rosa-landlords-face-prosecution-for-price-gouging-during-north-bay-fires-emergency/39785/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/six-santa-rosa-landlor... 3. "One man was even arrested for charging an elderly woman $18,000 to remove two fallen trees — the equivalent of nearly $29,000 today — according to a 1996 News & Observer article." - https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article218258000.html https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/articl... 4. "So far, the Governor’s Office of Consumer Affairs has probed 197 of those complaints and determined that 78 gas stations and other businesses gouged customers. Those businesses agreed to pay Georgia tens of thousands of dollars in fines and offer refunds to victims for overcharges." - https://www.ajc.com/news/local/refunds-promised-for-gas-gouging-rare/LH31ViCWlIDLAA7VpA5BqI/ https://www.ajc.com/news/local/refunds-promised-for-gas-goug... 5. "NC attorney general files lawsuit against tree company over alleged price gouging in Wilmington" - https://www.wral.com/attorney-general-josh-stein-filed-a-lawsuit-against-arborist-in-wilmington/17882199/ https://www.wral.com/attorney-general-josh-stein-filed-a-law... 6. "Since Attorney General Charlie Crist took office in 2002, the state has launched 72 formal investigations of alleged gouging and filed 15 lawsuits. “In 2004 and 2005, with each successive storm we saw fewer and fewer complaints about price gouging,” said Crist spokeswoman JoAnn Carrin. The law, she said, is having a deterrent effect." - http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12498071/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/what-price-gouging-can-it-be-stopped/ http://www.nbcnews.com/id/12498071/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/w...