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One of my podcasts recently said something that I found very fitting: Americans really love themselves some socialism when they get it.

lukifer 7y ago
We have incredible status quo bias on the subject of public resources and economic infrastructure; if we already have it (schools, libraries, Medicare), it's sacrosanct; but if it's any new idea or initiative, it's scary socialism destined to lead to starvation and gulags. The legendary Craig T. Nelson quote comes to mind: "I've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No."
refurb 7y ago
I don't think there are any humans alive on this earth that won't happily accept free money.
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago
  Especially when it's free money. One of the worst things the government does is take your own money only to give it back with strings attached or in the form of programs they paid more for than it would have cost you to buy in the market. If all they were doing is giving people cash then you could just as easily call it a tax cut. And nobody turns those down either.
gnopgnip 7y ago
US government spending is 38% of the GDP. But don't call it socialism, it's economic stimulus.
djsumdog 7y ago
Most people don't even remotely understand what socialism is. Every public road, every interstate, every subsidized city train/bus system, every public park, every police department, every fire department, the CDC, the FDA, the EPA .. they are ALL examples of socialism. You cannot have a high income country without a high level of socialism. Socialism is simply the State providing services for its people.
- black_puppydog 7y ago
  oh, just in case that wasn't clear: I'm all for having public infrastructure and healthcare and such largely non-market organized. I just find it funny (in a currently rather sad way) that the debate about socialist ideas in the US is largely avoided by making the debate center about worst cases, and mostly really about the word socialism iteself...
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism : > Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management of enterprises. The likes of police and fire departments in the US are an example of not socialism. Most of what they need for their operations (cars, radios, buildings, etc.) are produced by private industry. The workers at the CDC and the FDA don't own it, its management and policies are chosen by politicians and voters (and lobbyists) rather than the workers. Actual socialism doesn't even require government involvement. A worker-owned collective is a socialist enterprise. But the MTA and the US Department of Transportation are not examples of that.

lukifer 7y ago

We have incredible status quo bias on the subject of public resources and economic infrastructure; if we already have it (schools, libraries, Medicare), it's sacrosanct; but if it's any new idea or initiative, it's scary socialism destined to lead to starvation and gulags. The legendary Craig T. Nelson quote comes to mind: "I've been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No."

refurb 7y ago

I don't think there are any humans alive on this earth that won't happily accept free money.

AnthonyMouse 7y ago
Especially when it's free money. One of the worst things the government does is take your own money only to give it back with strings attached or in the form of programs they paid more for than it would have cost you to buy in the market. If all they were doing is giving people cash then you could just as easily call it a tax cut. And nobody turns those down either.

gnopgnip 7y ago

US government spending is 38% of the GDP. But don't call it socialism, it's economic stimulus.

djsumdog 7y ago

Most people don't even remotely understand what socialism is. Every public road, every interstate, every subsidized city train/bus system, every public park, every police department, every fire department, the CDC, the FDA, the EPA .. they are ALL examples of socialism. You cannot have a high income country without a high level of socialism. Socialism is simply the State providing services for its people.

black_puppydog 7y ago
oh, just in case that wasn't clear: I'm all for having public infrastructure and healthcare and such largely non-market organized. I just find it funny (in a currently rather sad way) that the debate about socialist ideas in the US is largely avoided by making the debate center about worst cases, and mostly really about the word socialism iteself...
AnthonyMouse 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism : > Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management of enterprises. The likes of police and fire departments in the US are an example of not socialism. Most of what they need for their operations (cars, radios, buildings, etc.) are produced by private industry. The workers at the CDC and the FDA don't own it, its management and policies are chosen by politicians and voters (and lobbyists) rather than the workers. Actual socialism doesn't even require government involvement. A worker-owned collective is a socialist enterprise. But the MTA and the US Department of Transportation are not examples of that.