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At risk of sounding like a jerk, I agree and think this whole reaction is overblown. A vacancy has been opened up. That will trigger numerous consequences acro

by SilasX 7y ago

At risk of sounding like a jerk, I agree and think this whole reaction is overblown. A vacancy has been opened up. That will trigger numerous consequences across the system. Yes, every time you observe such consequences, you will be reminded of its cause -- the roommate's death. But it's unrealistic to expect every other subsystem not to do anything that reminds you of that death, which, as far as I can tell, is the extent of this email's "wrongdoing". "Woe is me, how dare you, the housing system, refer to my roommate's death as just another vacancy." Come on, now.

HarryHirsch 7y ago
It wasn't me, it's the computer that did it, that excuse is as old as dirt. There is that version of the Monty Python "Dead Bishops" skit, where the murderer says "It was me, but society is at fault." Consequently the Church Policeman asks all the other people present: "Excuse me, are you a member of society?" - "Yes." - "Come with me, then."
- SilasX 7y ago
  But the "it" here is "tell you the consequences of the vacancy". The "wrongdoing" is reminding the author of the roommate's death (which is out of the control of anyone who communicates to him about the vacancy). A human would do the exact same thing (to the extent of telling you about that), so nothing is being excused by virtue of the computer doing it.
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    The problem is with the wording. The "Friendly Campus System" "detected a vacancy". In the face of a sudden, unprepared death you offer condolences and give the bereaved person the customary 30 days. The email from the blogpost is completely inappropiate. Mortality in college students is something around 15 in 100000, a campus of 10000 can expect a student death per year. It's surprising that there were no processes in place to act appropiately in that situation.
    - hrktb 7y ago
      Isn’t that “solved” by the friend going to the administration and discussing the issue with a human to have the situation properly handled ? I feel it’s like blaming your roomba for running over your graduation certificate when it could have recognized it and paid due respect. Automated systems are a thing now, and the mail was explicitely signed as coming from automation, with a neutral and polite enough language. We should accept it as it is IMHO.
      - HarryHirsch 7y ago
        No, we should not accept suboptimal outcomes from automation and we should insist on properly designed processes. Automation should serve the students and faculty, not university administration, who can say they've shaved so-and-so much off this cost center that is student housing. The most worrying thing is that the administration had student deaths before and still continues to give offense.
        uk_programmer 7y ago
        Offence can only be taken and is wholly subjective as this whole thread has proven. It is unfortunate that this caused her upset but it was neither the intent or at all cause of it. The cause of her upset is the fact that her friend had passed away. She could have been reminded of her bereavement from something entirely different.
        hrktb 7y ago
        I totally agree with you when it impacts people’s security, privacy, goods or money. I am less intransigent when it comes to potentially hurt feelings.
prostheticvamp 7y ago
What’s overblown? Did you read the actual post? It literally came down to, and I paraphrase, “and this experience taught me the lasting lesson that software will interact with human beings in a variety of contexts and situations that we may not anticipate. We should be thoughtful, to not hurt people who interact with our software in ways we didn’t bother thinking about”. That’s not a bad idea.
- SilasX 7y ago
  Doing it so thoroughly that you purge any reminders of someone's death is a bad idea. Even knowing this happened, I don't see how it should have been done differently. Eventually you have to do something about the vacancy. Communicating to the author about the vacancy will remind him of the death. It's unavoidable. It's "overblown" to expect everyone not to communicate to you in any way that calls back to your roommate dying. >Did you read the actual post? Yes. Edit: To put it another way, let's say this email was sent how the author would have preferred. Next semester, then what? They have to keep adding a blurb about sympathy for the roommate's death, every time the vacancy is mentioned? Eventually you have to accept that "no, the world isn't going to keep dancing around this".
  - clort 7y ago
    > I don't see how it should have been done differently The automated email should have been sent to the building coordinator who could have acted on the automated request to assign a new roommate or not as appropriate. At the very least, there is a vacancy halfway through the year for a reason. How many of the possible reasons might benefit from considerate handling? Sometimes impersonal centralisation works well, and sometimes not.
    - rawbeef 7y ago
      So all vacancy notifications should be sent to building coordinators who are responsible for personally notifying tenants? What if they forget or do it tactlessly? The system worked as intended. Part of emotional maturity is learning to cope with "cosmic indifference." It's not a defect to engineer out of day-to-day life. Or if it is, it falls at the bottom of my list. IMHO this request reflects a mind-boggling level of privilege.
petre 7y ago
The whole automated message is like it was taken straight out of Blade Runner or another dystopic story. I can already hear a nondescript computer generated female voice announcing the vacancy in an emotionless tone.

by SilasX 7y ago

HarryHirsch 7y ago

It wasn't me, it's the computer that did it, that excuse is as old as dirt. There is that version of the Monty Python "Dead Bishops" skit, where the murderer says "It was me, but society is at fault." Consequently the Church Policeman asks all the other people present: "Excuse me, are you a member of society?" - "Yes." - "Come with me, then."

SilasX 7y ago
But the "it" here is "tell you the consequences of the vacancy". The "wrongdoing" is reminding the author of the roommate's death (which is out of the control of anyone who communicates to him about the vacancy). A human would do the exact same thing (to the extent of telling you about that), so nothing is being excused by virtue of the computer doing it.
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  The problem is with the wording. The "Friendly Campus System" "detected a vacancy". In the face of a sudden, unprepared death you offer condolences and give the bereaved person the customary 30 days. The email from the blogpost is completely inappropiate. Mortality in college students is something around 15 in 100000, a campus of 10000 can expect a student death per year. It's surprising that there were no processes in place to act appropiately in that situation.
  - hrktb 7y ago
    Isn’t that “solved” by the friend going to the administration and discussing the issue with a human to have the situation properly handled ? I feel it’s like blaming your roomba for running over your graduation certificate when it could have recognized it and paid due respect. Automated systems are a thing now, and the mail was explicitely signed as coming from automation, with a neutral and polite enough language. We should accept it as it is IMHO.
    - HarryHirsch 7y ago
      No, we should not accept suboptimal outcomes from automation and we should insist on properly designed processes. Automation should serve the students and faculty, not university administration, who can say they've shaved so-and-so much off this cost center that is student housing. The most worrying thing is that the administration had student deaths before and still continues to give offense.
      - uk_programmer 7y ago
        Offence can only be taken and is wholly subjective as this whole thread has proven. It is unfortunate that this caused her upset but it was neither the intent or at all cause of it. The cause of her upset is the fact that her friend had passed away. She could have been reminded of her bereavement from something entirely different.
      - hrktb 7y ago
        I totally agree with you when it impacts people’s security, privacy, goods or money. I am less intransigent when it comes to potentially hurt feelings.

prostheticvamp 7y ago

What’s overblown? Did you read the actual post? It literally came down to, and I paraphrase, “and this experience taught me the lasting lesson that software will interact with human beings in a variety of contexts and situations that we may not anticipate. We should be thoughtful, to not hurt people who interact with our software in ways we didn’t bother thinking about”. That’s not a bad idea.

SilasX 7y ago
Doing it so thoroughly that you purge any reminders of someone's death is a bad idea. Even knowing this happened, I don't see how it should have been done differently. Eventually you have to do something about the vacancy. Communicating to the author about the vacancy will remind him of the death. It's unavoidable. It's "overblown" to expect everyone not to communicate to you in any way that calls back to your roommate dying. >Did you read the actual post? Yes. Edit: To put it another way, let's say this email was sent how the author would have preferred. Next semester, then what? They have to keep adding a blurb about sympathy for the roommate's death, every time the vacancy is mentioned? Eventually you have to accept that "no, the world isn't going to keep dancing around this".
- clort 7y ago
  > I don't see how it should have been done differently The automated email should have been sent to the building coordinator who could have acted on the automated request to assign a new roommate or not as appropriate. At the very least, there is a vacancy halfway through the year for a reason. How many of the possible reasons might benefit from considerate handling? Sometimes impersonal centralisation works well, and sometimes not.
  - rawbeef 7y ago
    So all vacancy notifications should be sent to building coordinators who are responsible for personally notifying tenants? What if they forget or do it tactlessly? The system worked as intended. Part of emotional maturity is learning to cope with "cosmic indifference." It's not a defect to engineer out of day-to-day life. Or if it is, it falls at the bottom of my list. IMHO this request reflects a mind-boggling level of privilege.

petre 7y ago

The whole automated message is like it was taken straight out of Blade Runner or another dystopic story. I can already hear a nondescript computer generated female voice announcing the vacancy in an emotionless tone.