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Facebook Contractors Must Work in Offices During Coronavirus Pandemic
- JPKab 7y agoWow. In case anyone doesn't fully grasp how irresponsible this is, these folks can transmit to each other, and in turn transmit to elderly and vulnerable populations. Yet another reason not to use their toxic product.
- sjroot 7y agoFacebook is not telling them they have to come into the office. Rather, it’s the contracting companies that these people actually work for. Quite a difference, which is clarified in the first paragraph.
- Seenso 7y ago> Facebook is not telling them they have to come into the office. Rather, it’s the contracting companies that these people actually work for. Though that's one of the benefits of outsourcing: you get all the benefits of squeezing your workers to the maximum (which helps the bottom line), while still having deniability for PR purposes. Facebook is responsible unless they loudly and publicly order their vendors to treat their employees better.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- lozaning 7y agoEvery budget within an organization is a moral doctrine. By evaluating company outlays you can tell where priorities lay. Facebook apparently doesn't care that much about doing business with a company that would have such a policy.
- kube-system 7y ago> Facebook is not telling them they have to come into the office. Yes, they are. > A Facebook spokesperson told The Intercept that “for both our full-time employees and contingent workforce there is some work that cannot be done from home…for content reviewers, some of this work must be done from the office for safety, privacy and legal reasons,”
- sjroot 7y agoFTA: > contract workers stating that, contrary to statements to them from Facebook, they are barred by their actual employers from working from home, despite the technical feasibility and clear public health benefits of doing so. Sounds like Facebook should immediately evaluate their relationships with these contracting companies.
- snoman 7y agoSounds more like there's 2 sets of rules: the ones that Facebook corporate publishes publicly, and the ones that the contractors are held to, from the frontline/engagement management.
- dublinben 7y agoAt what point can you make an OSHA complaint that your employer is failing to provide you a safe (disease-free) workplace?
- doitLP 7y agoWhen is your workplace ever certified disease free? While you’re at it, file a complaint about them making you drive to work in a car.
- Seenso 7y ago> When is your workplace ever certified disease free? Never, but taking these actions in this situation is definitely negligence at best. It's like running a hospital forcing people to work without providing soap or hand sanitizer.
- CoolGuySteve 7y agoDefinitely not during a global pandemic, which is the whole fucking point.
- snoman 7y ago29 states have declared a state of emergency due to COVID-19... It's not so much about certifying it as disease free and more about certifying it as unsafe.
- ceejayoz 7y ago> While you’re at it, file a complaint about them making you drive to work in a car. If your employer forced you to drive through floodwaters, you'd probably have a valid OHSA complaint.
- aplummer 7y ago> One Accenture employee Yeah look easy to hate on Facebook, but Accenture is a big company and can easily send their own staff home to sit on the bench and do business development or just work on another client.
- kube-system 7y agoI believe that these are low-skill content-moderation staff who were hired specifically for their FB contract. They'll likely be shitcanned if they lose the contract. Accenture isn't going to run this huge contract into the ground anyway.
- aplummer 7y ago> I believe that these are low-skill content-moderation staff who were hired specifically for their FB contract. I agree it's possible. If there are small consultancies doing the same work that would happen. Accenture would be more likely to wear it though to avoid rehire and PR expenses. My point was that it's on Accenture what they choose to do, a company with plenty of billions and locus of control - not the client.
- kube-system 7y agoIt might be. I don't know the terms of the contract, but they may have civil liability if they choose to do something else.
- snoman 7y agoNo. The engagement will be governed by a contract, and those contracts will often require they staff a certain number of people for the engagement - especially if it's a "butts in seats" kind of engagement, which this looks like it is. There will be provisions for backfills if/when people quit and the like, but otherwise they would have to have agreement from FB to alter the contract to have nobody billing for some period of time. Whomever is managing the engagement from Accenture is shitting the bed and communicating poorly, for sure, though.
- octokatt 7y agoThis is a clear externality caused by having a contracting company between an employer and employee. Contracting companies are incentivize to increase their margin by reducing benefits, including maintaining employee health. If we're going to also start a better discussion about working from home, can we do the same for the proliferation of second-class contractors? The lack of health care and sick leave is going to drastically increase the spread of coronavirus. To say nothing of employees in retail, food service, and maintenance.
- wuliwong 7y agoThey are also incentivized to to give benefits to attract skilled people.
- kube-system 7y agoOnly if the job requires a skilled person.
- ornornor 7y agoNot really. Once enough companies switch to hiring contractors through staffing agencies because of the huge savings (as is happening more and more), all the choice that will be left is between two equally stingy staffing agencies with no benefits.
- xenonite 7y agoIsn't it possible for the contractors to unite and force altogether to let their individual contracts with Facebook be changed?
- sco1 7y agoHey, that sounds suspiciously like a union. I'm sure they could, it would probably end up with their contracts being terminated though. Or maybe not, depending on how strong the PR backlash is.
- nerfhammer 7y agothe article is describing people who work for external companies that facebook has a contract with. they don't have individual contracts with facebook themselves.
- btbuildem 7y agoAccenture and WiPro I think at this point it's fair to dox the individual middle-managers and C-level schmucks, expose them to the consequences of their choices.
- badrabbit 7y agoI think doxing is(or should be?) A crime that should have you see jail time, as is this threat/conspiracy you just posted. Lawful managemement decisins are fine, the US is not under emergency officially and there is no direction from the government or CDC asking employers to make people work from home.
- pixl97 7y agoWhen legality and morality conflict.
- ronald_dregan 7y agopeople like badrabbit need to be executed, for the good of everyone else remember: this person (probably) votes.
- badrabbit 7y agoI feel the opposite way from a moral perspective. People that do evil in the name of justice are far more evil than people that do first hand evil. If FB managers are immoral then even your threat of doxing is so evil you should face immediate yet just and measured consequence. The only moral conflict with the law is how tame the punishment for doxing is.
- tingletech 7y agoUS is not "under emergency officially" because Trump wants to save face. CA has been in a state of emergency since March 4
- badrabbit 7y agoIt is now, and people should follow emergency orders...now? Was what FB did against CA emergency state orders or guidelines?
- whatshisface 7y ago>After The Intercept contacted Facebook, sources said the company deleted at least once lengthy thread on the PTO grievances, with one Facebook employee saying in the online workplace forum that the deleted post “contained false and misleading information about COVID-19 that was causing unnecessary panic for some people working in the [Mountain View] office.” This employee added that “going forward,” the company “will remove any posts or comment about COVID-19 flagged to us that contains misinformation.” There you go, anti-misinformation rules being used to delete inconvenient discussion. At least now we have a specific example to illustrate the free speech issues associated with trying to curtail the spread of misinformation, one involving Facebook no less.
- Angostura 7y ago> There you go, anti-misinformation rules being used to delete inconvenient discussion. ... or possibly misinformation. We haven't seen the thread, so we don't know, do we?
- agoodthrowaway 7y agoI think the GP is suggesting that as soon as you are moderating speech, a powerful moderating authority can quickly lose trust by deleting discussions. Or it could be that the moderating authority already is untrusted so deletions legitimate or not are always suspect.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y agoThe GP is very explicitly saying that the rules are being used to delete the discussion because it is inconvenient: > anti-misinformation rules being used to delete inconvenient discussion But we don't actually know if that's why it was deleted. It's a presumption on whatshisface's part.
- agoodthrowaway 7y agoI think you’ve missed the point now twice. It’s the lack of trust that is the issue here that leads to that assumption. The lack of trust is the fault of the moderator not of the GP.
- dhosek 7y agoAt my employer, while WFH was encouraged for employees before Covid-19, it was explicitly prohibited for contractors. There are some teams where the contractors do not have the capability to remotely access work systems (when we had the polar vortex conditions last winter, employees were told to work from home, contractors were either in the office or took PTO). Locally (Chicago), I'm seeing a lot of closures (our suburban schools/libraries/park district all closed effective today, about half the museums are currently closed), and anecdotally, there have been far fewer people than usual on the "L" during my commutes. I imagine that it's a matter of when and not if when the whole company moves to mandatory WFH. Not sure what will happen with the contractors for whom this is not a possibility.
- dhosek 7y agoAnd the answer to when, it turns out, is Monday. My floor has a bit of a ghost town this week.
- downvoteme1 7y agoLooking at the names of the contracting companies , I would guess that most of the contractors are Indians. As such they are on a visa and their only options are either keep working or get laid off and go back as you won’t be able to find another job very soon in this climate.
- badrabbit 7y agoCan't believe HN is on the panic bandwagon as well. Is the CDC recommending work from home? Is law enforcement? Any public health officials? Law enforcement? Congress? What authoritative source suggested working from home at this stage is mandated or even recommended? What are people smoking. Crowd think sure is scary. I don't like FB and I think there should be an executive order from the whitehouse requiring anyone older than 55,immunocompromised (medically verified) or showing cold/flu like symptoms to be allowed to work from home or receive subsidized paid time off. But I don't think irrational panic and getting high on fear like this is healthy. At a macro level,the panic is doing more harm than the disease. At the individual level there are explicit steps you can take to keep safe, it is important to not panic yet take every recommended precaution.
- kordlessagain 7y ago> Crowd think sure is scary. It's polarizing, which pushes emotions to 11.
- badrabbit 7y agoExactly, I was surprised with HN because HNers from experience are otherwise very rational.
- maliker 7y agoMy office of 500 people is going mandatory remote today until further notice. Estimates of infection rates are getting up to 50% of the US population. With the current 1-2% mortality rate thats 1.6 million dead. Seems like a no-brainer to require work from home to limit the spread of infection.
- badrabbit 7y agoSimilar here with wfh. Estimates and stats are fine but I prefer to trust the experts than play public health expert myself. If someone is being extra cautious that's fine, but trying to villify for not being as paranoid as you is silly.
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- Proven 7y agoIf they got laid off, they'd write about how they lost jobs. Billions of people still must work in offices. These probably get paid more than others who work in similar conditions
- gumby 7y agoSome contractors. My gf started as a contractor at FB in January and she is now working from home and was asked not to come in unless it was absolutely necessary (she was in yesterday to pick up some gear). But she's not in moderation or anything; she's a research scientist. So there may be a class system involved.
- torhorway 7y agoIt depends on the vendor who the contractor works for. Fb can only provide guidance to those companies, not demand anything
- room505 7y agoMy workplace is still requiring everyone to come into the office even though we're all capable of working at home. They're allowing people to work at home on a case by case basis. What's crazy is that we already get to work from home one day, every other week. They're obviously telling people to stay home if they are not well. A lot of my coworkers are upset that higher-ups are not taking this seriously.