6 ms·

For a slightly more balanced perspective, try this paper: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220301145 https://www.sciencedirect.com/scie

• weekay 7y ago
  >The outcomes of some current clinical trials of chloroquine in China have been announced, without access to the data. This seems to be the link to the details of clinical trials in China that are made available http://www.chictr.org.cn/searchproj.aspx?title=氯喹&officialname=&subjectid=&secondaryid=&applier=&studyleader=&ethicalcommitteesanction=&sponsor=&studyailment=&studyailmentcode=&studytype=0&studystage=0&studydesign=0&minstudyexecutetime=&maxstudyexecutetime=&recruitmentstatus=0&gender=0&agreetosign=&secsponsor=&regno=&regstatus=0&country=&province=&city=&institution=&institutionlevel=&measure=&intercode=&sourceofspends=&createyear=0&isuploadrf=&whetherpublic=&btngo=btn&verifycode=&page=1 http://www.chictr.org.cn/searchproj.aspx?title=氯喹&officialna...
  • yorwba 7y ago
    I checked the most recent result from that search: http://www.chictr.org.cn/showproj.aspx?proj=50843 http://www.chictr.org.cn/showproj.aspx?proj=50843 At the very bottom, it says "original data will be published on web-based public database in 6 months after the research" which is a bit disappointing.
    • _-___________-_ 7y ago
      What would be the motivation for that 6 month delay? Cynically it only seems like a way to grab headlines without any possibility of informed criticism, but I really want to believe that there are other possible motivations!
      • CydeWeys 7y ago
        Maybe it would take a lot more work to get the data into a publishable format and they don't think that's their highest priority right now? Being charitable here.
      • rfoo 7y ago
        Most likely because this is a general notice and when situations are boring their bureaucracy can take them 6 months.
    • hackeerTwo 7y ago
      Can anyone mention a reasonable explanation for the 6-month delay? All I can think is that they want to prevent irresponsible purchases thus only including it in treatment guidelines for now.
      • grogenaut 7y ago
        maybe they forgot to change that page on their powerpoint template? I know I've done it.
      • tim333 7y ago
        I think the 6 month delay relates to patient by patient data. They can release group statistics before.
• checker659 7y ago
  How is it balanced when the counterpoints themselves are just speculations?
• rscho 7y ago
  Thank you for this reasonable view. Those last few days, I have seen a great many people here piling on chloroquine and aggressively promoting it to others. Those people were sometimes alledged scientists. This is worrying. Some countries have it in their emergency guidelines, yes. But is it beyond reasonable doubt that quinine derivatives are useful in humans? No. Absolutely not. People are incredibly prompt to jump in on unproven suggestions during a crisis, while at the same time shitting on standard evidence-based medical care all year long. Go figure... A small-sized chinese study with unreleased data? Color me skeptical.
  • 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    “Some countries” is of course South Korea, which has had one of the lowest mortality rates of covid19. 1. http://m.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428 http://m.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428
    • rscho 7y ago
      And of course, you provide evidence of a causal link to quinine derivatives. This is ridiculous. If you really knew the scientific state of clinical research, you would be far more skeptical.
      • deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      • tim333 7y ago
        That sort of data while it doesn't prove hydroxychloroquine did it, it does give some hope. If it was the other way that they - that they'd treated everyone with that and had a bad death rate then that would pretty much prove it didn't work. Another interesting bit of data along those lines is the Chinese added chloroquine to their their treatment guidelines on feb 19th and their death rate dropped about 3 or 4x shortly after https://neutron-assets.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/img/corona/new_deaths_-_china-09032020080620.png https://neutron-assets.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/img/c...
• biolurker1 7y ago
  but the Chinese have been trying it in vivo in real ICU patients and they discovered it's better than placebo
  • Alex3917 7y ago
    But their data also shows TCM is better than placebo. Is chloroquine more effective than TCM? Keep in mind that antivirals only work well if you start taking the during the first two days, TCM is reasonably safe and over the counter, whereas if you're in the US then good luck even getting tested in the first 10 days let alone prescribed something. C.f.: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1043661820307556?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S104366182...
• hammock 7y ago
  Thanks for this summary. >The outcomes of some current clinical trials of chloroquine in China have been announced, without access to the data Which are...?
  • jbourne007 7y ago
    The trial numbers are referenced in the sciencedirect paper but I really wish they would share the outcomes of the trials. WHO should be on this one would think!
• Khelavaster 7y ago
  This paper's completely misleading. Coronavirus also has shown benefit in animal models -- for example, "Antiviral Activity of Chloroquine against Human Coronavirus OC43 Infection in Newborn Mice" "Survival rates declined in a dose-dependent manner, with 88% survival when treated with 5 mg/kg chloroquine and 13% survival when treated with 1 mg/kg chloroquine. Our results show that chloroquine can be highly effective against HCoV-OC43 infection in newborn mice and may be considered as a future drug against HCoVs." https://aac.asm.org/content/53/8/3416 https://aac.asm.org/content/53/8/3416