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> I respect people who commit civil disobedience, especially in reaction to injustice like the Espionage Act. It's a credible signal that someone finds some par

by baddox 7y ago

> I respect people who commit civil disobedience, especially in reaction to injustice like the Espionage Act. It's a credible signal that someone finds some particular law wrong. But this is not that scenario. You’re just saying that you support civil disobedience when you support it. Of course. But of course people can and do commit civil disobedience to protest things you don’t support.

baryphonic 7y ago
I chose my words carefully. People who commit civil disobedience and accept their punishments make me stop and ponder. I may not agree with their positions, but I do take them seriously. I feel the same way about people who self-immolate. Hard to have a more credible commitment to some sort of cause than almost certainly killing yourself in an extremely visible way. There's very little I would set myself on fire for, so I have serious respect for those who do it, and it makes me stop and consider what I believe.
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  The reason you choose your words so carefully is because you are upset that Manning tried to kill herself and did not "accept their punishments". Yeah... good take. Oh wait, actually the views you are advocating here are fascist and hurtful to democracy.
  - sterlind 7y ago
    I didn't read it that way and I'm on the left.. I've participated in civil disobedience protests before (forming a human chain.) Obstructing passage is illegal, but I believed in what I did and was willing to accept detainment. The poster's perspective is that civil disobedience is illegal (almost by definition), and as an illegal action it has risks (detainment, being roughed up), and the willingness of people to take those risks for a cause they believe in makes them stop and listen. This is precisely the goal, and I laud them for not tuning it out! Anyways, it can also go the other direction. The self-immolation of a reported Falun Gong member turned public opinion in China against the practice as too extreme/cultlike, bolstering the crackdown, rather than drawing sympathy for their brutal suppression.
    - somesortofsystm 7y ago
      > I'm on the left.. That doesn't mean you aren't fascist, or hold a view that isn't hurtful to democracy. Both 'sides' are equally capable of totalitarian/authoritarian thought.
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  If a law is morally wrong and you commit civil disobedience you have no moral obligation to be punished for opposing the immoral. That would be silly. It may be that opposing the immoral law and accepting punishment has a better marketing aspect for convincing people of the immorality of the law, but doing that convincing might not be the purpose the person has, their purpose might just be opposing the immoral law.

by baddox 7y ago

baryphonic 7y ago

I chose my words carefully. People who commit civil disobedience and accept their punishments make me stop and ponder. I may not agree with their positions, but I do take them seriously. I feel the same way about people who self-immolate. Hard to have a more credible commitment to some sort of cause than almost certainly killing yourself in an extremely visible way. There's very little I would set myself on fire for, so I have serious respect for those who do it, and it makes me stop and consider what I believe.

birdyrooster 7y ago
The reason you choose your words so carefully is because you are upset that Manning tried to kill herself and did not "accept their punishments". Yeah... good take. Oh wait, actually the views you are advocating here are fascist and hurtful to democracy.
- sterlind 7y ago
  I didn't read it that way and I'm on the left.. I've participated in civil disobedience protests before (forming a human chain.) Obstructing passage is illegal, but I believed in what I did and was willing to accept detainment. The poster's perspective is that civil disobedience is illegal (almost by definition), and as an illegal action it has risks (detainment, being roughed up), and the willingness of people to take those risks for a cause they believe in makes them stop and listen. This is precisely the goal, and I laud them for not tuning it out! Anyways, it can also go the other direction. The self-immolation of a reported Falun Gong member turned public opinion in China against the practice as too extreme/cultlike, bolstering the crackdown, rather than drawing sympathy for their brutal suppression.
  - somesortofsystm 7y ago
    > I'm on the left.. That doesn't mean you aren't fascist, or hold a view that isn't hurtful to democracy. Both 'sides' are equally capable of totalitarian/authoritarian thought.
bryanrasmussen 7y ago
If a law is morally wrong and you commit civil disobedience you have no moral obligation to be punished for opposing the immoral. That would be silly. It may be that opposing the immoral law and accepting punishment has a better marketing aspect for convincing people of the immorality of the law, but doing that convincing might not be the purpose the person has, their purpose might just be opposing the immoral law.