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This is the part where I remind people that Obama drone striked a 16 year old US citizen without trial in a non active war zone and a cafe full of civilians bec

by surge 7y ago

This is the part where I remind people that Obama drone striked a 16 year old US citizen without trial in a non active war zone and a cafe full of civilians because someone bad might be there (and wasn't so just killed a bunch of innocent people). That's a war crime tantamount to murder. You're right in some respects Obama is worse. I definitely feel like I could have a beer with him, but fuck me if he didn't do things as bad as Bush or worse. People called Bush the same names they called Trump now, so it doesn't mean as much anymore.

laurex 7y ago
Meanwhile, the parent poster was talking about not wanting to move to the US, and this isn't much of a contradictory statement on those lines.
creato 7y ago
> but fuck me if he didn't do things as bad as Bush or worse. If you actually believe this, you grossly lack a sense of scale. Multiplying Obama's actions by 100 doesn't come close to starting the Iraq war.
- surge 7y ago
  He continued the war, he didn't pull out as promised. Got involved in Syria. He kept Guantanamo open. He upped the number of drone strikes. Knowingly killed a 16 year old US citizen who was not an enemy combatant or in a country like Iraq or Afghanistan. He extended the Patriot Act. All things he criticized Bush for. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/14/13577464/obama-farewell-speech-torture-drones-nsa-surveillance-trump https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/14/13577464/...
  - creato 7y ago
    > He continued the war, he didn't pull out as promised. What he promised: "my first day in office, I would give the military a new mission: ending this war". [1] That's not the same as "pull out". > Got involved in Syria. "Got involved" in an already ongoing crisis, and arguably a direct result of the Iraq war, is not the same as starting the Iraq war. Not even fucking close. Syria: 2.5k troops [2] Iraq: ~300k troops [3], and we've been there 20 years. Like I said, multiply Obama by 100x... On the remaining points, I'm not claiming Obama was great on these issues. My only claim is that if you think Obama even remotely compares to Bush in terms of the amount of destructive policy the two brought about, you lack a sense of scale and perspective. 1. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/125/direct-military-leaders-to-end-war-in-iraq/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/p... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_t... 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#2003:_Invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#2003:_Invasion

by surge 7y ago

laurex 7y ago

Meanwhile, the parent poster was talking about not wanting to move to the US, and this isn't much of a contradictory statement on those lines.

creato 7y ago

> but fuck me if he didn't do things as bad as Bush or worse. If you actually believe this, you grossly lack a sense of scale. Multiplying Obama's actions by 100 doesn't come close to starting the Iraq war.

surge 7y ago
He continued the war, he didn't pull out as promised. Got involved in Syria. He kept Guantanamo open. He upped the number of drone strikes. Knowingly killed a 16 year old US citizen who was not an enemy combatant or in a country like Iraq or Afghanistan. He extended the Patriot Act. All things he criticized Bush for. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/14/13577464/obama-farewell-speech-torture-drones-nsa-surveillance-trump https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/14/13577464/...
- creato 7y ago
  > He continued the war, he didn't pull out as promised. What he promised: "my first day in office, I would give the military a new mission: ending this war". [1] That's not the same as "pull out". > Got involved in Syria. "Got involved" in an already ongoing crisis, and arguably a direct result of the Iraq war, is not the same as starting the Iraq war. Not even fucking close. Syria: 2.5k troops [2] Iraq: ~300k troops [3], and we've been there 20 years. Like I said, multiply Obama by 100x... On the remaining points, I'm not claiming Obama was great on these issues. My only claim is that if you think Obama even remotely compares to Bush in terms of the amount of destructive policy the two brought about, you lack a sense of scale and perspective. 1. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/125/direct-military-leaders-to-end-war-in-iraq/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/p... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_t... 3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#2003:_Invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War#2003:_Invasion