21 ms·

Artificial kidneys and miniaturized dialysis could save millions of lives

82 points by sohkamyung 7y ago

paul7986 7y ago
Changing/revolutionizing your diet from meat eater to vegeterian and or vegan with tons of water daily (3 liters) could make your kidneys healthier then they ever were. My function was 55 (not on dialysis) now 80 and increasing (healthiest kidney function is 120). Further ive read many stories of those on dialysis who changed the food they eat to vegetarian or vegan have gotten off of dialysis.
- swsieber 7y ago
  I'd like to second the diet bit, namely that it can be an effective tool in some cases. Specifically, I have a relative who has trouble maintaining healthy kidneys. The primary tactic she uses to mitigate things is to avoid meat.
  - paul9290 7y ago
    That's good to hear! I have seen it work for 1000s in the Facebook group Natural Kidney Journey and across the Internet. Many success stories daily seen on that group match my positive results like your relative's same results. Not sure why there is such downvoting going on about suggesting becoming more healthy to better your life and or at least try it to see if it works. Those who are highly negative are you saying a kidney patient who goes vegetarian or vegan is hurting themselves? Love to hear your thoughts!
    - swsieber 7y ago
      Well, I mean she's kept things under control. I don't know if she (a nutritionist/dietician by training) would recommend radical diet changes while on dialysis. Also, your comment made it seem like diet change is a silver bullet, when it is not. My relative has had a couple of times where she's had to use medicine to keep her kidneys from going non-functional. I'm aware that you might not have intended it to frame diet change, but that's how it comes off.
  - C1sc0cat 7y ago
    Probably only works for non chronic forms - but I have seen some one shut down their kidney function by mixing zinc tablets with prescription meds.
    - paul9290 7y ago
      In September I changed my diet and lifestyle... Decreased extreme workouts that raise creatine, stopped/will not take any form of meds or pills, started drinking 3 liters of water daily and started cooking all my meals At home. My diet was horrible before ..no water, chic fil grilled chicken each morning and outback/bar food almost nightly. Though it wasn't fried bar food I cut that out long ago but food prepared by you is always going to be healthier then eating out. So far my plant based renal doc and I are seeing positive results. Further I no longer have fluid build up when sitting for long periods.
- 127 7y ago
  So, can you link the evidence for this?
  - paul7986 7y ago
    I was diagnosed in September and looking back at my 2016 labs I see I had been living with only 55 percent kidney function (had no idea .. no symptoms.. you may not until it's too late) for whoever knows how long. Most doctors aren't helpful and just say it cant be reversed ... hogwash .. what you put in your body matters. If you feed it processed crap and crap that is harder to break down then water and a say a natural food like a carrot, apples, etc your no doubt stressing out your system more then you need to especially if you have kidney disease. Overall I didnt listen to the various stupid doctors I met with rather joined a facebook group called Natural Kidney Journey. My kidney function is healthier then ever as i was at stage 3a kidney disease now my kidney function is 80 percent and climbing after 7 months of revolutionizing my diet. If you were to join that Facebook group too you would see many similar stories like mine daily. Further the creator of the group along with others in the group are now dialysis free .. see Don Davis's story https://www.forksoverknives.com/from-3-percent-kidney-function-to-dialysis-free-on-a-whole-food-plant-based-diet/#gs.zx4q7z https://www.forksoverknives.com/from-3-percent-kidney-functi...
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      No offense, but your story doesn’t exactly inspire confidence…
      - paul9290 7y ago
        It's all good I'm just telling my personal story (and results) in the hope it helps some ppl who are interested in doing more then nothing. Changing your diet may work for others too while some it may not. You never know til you try and eating better is an overall good thing for the body.
- reportgunner 7y ago
  Why aren't doctors prescribing this ?
  - sten 7y ago
    I thought diet intervention is the primary treatment prior to dialysis. With the goal of prolonging the time until mechanical intervention or replacement becomes necessary. But I've never heard of diet alone taking someone off dialysis and a quick search for papers on the subject shows mostly positive associations of a reduction in protein on kidney function but nothing suggesting a magic bullet. *edit To add, I have a couple of associates at my office approaching kidney failure. They're all on diet interventions to reduce protein and potassium. Not sure how the potassium interacts with it but I'm not a doctor either.
    - silencio 7y ago
      diet plays a huge role in kidney disease management for sure. potassium is a big deal since it is filtered out by the kidneys and if your kidney function is lowered, dangerous levels could build up and possibly lead to a heart attack. on the flip side you generally have to start ramping up protein intake once on dialysis. but agreed that this isn’t straightforward and if it was so easy, people wouldn’t be on dialysis and renal dietitians would be overjoyed. it’s infuriating to read the other comments suggesting it’s all some garbage american diet.
      - paul7986 7y ago
        Why is it infatuating... im just telling what has worked for me and 1,000s of others. What harm will come from someone who is stage 3a to change their diet to uber healthy and increase water intake? Are you a doctor? It is everyones choice to make the best choices for themselves .. try things to see what works. I get labs monthly and review my progress/success with my renal doc. I finally found one who preaches diet change cause she has seen many patient success stories herself.
        aketchum 7y ago
- silencio 7y ago
  this is incredibly dangerous advice for someone already on dialysis. there’s no fluid restriction for ckd until you hit esrd, in which case 3 liters a day consistently will damage your heart.
  - paul7986 7y ago
    Im not on dialysis im saying how Ive made my kidneys healthier then they have ever been. From 55 kidney function to 80 (in 7 months) and increasing. I follow the FB Group Natural Kidney Journey .. the person who set it up is now dialysis free (im not sure about his water intake) https://www.forksoverknives.com/from-3-percent-kidney-function-to-dialysis-free-on-a-whole-food-plant-based-diet/#gs.zx4q7z https://www.forksoverknives.com/from-3-percent-kidney-functi... Overall downvote me all you want i was just wanted to tell others that going uber healthy with your diet is a good thing (logically it is an no one can disagree with that) and it has helped me increase and continues to increase my function.
ahelwer 7y ago
My older sister had end-stage renal failure (from IgA nephropathy [0]) and was on dialysis, so I donated my kidney to her. If you want to make an incredible difference in someone's life, I can't recommend it enough! There are cool computer science problems involved: imagine person A1 wants to donate their kidney to their partner A2 but they aren't a match. Now imagine many such pairs exist (B1/B2, C1/C2, D1/D2 etc.) and you start noticing that while A1 can't donate to A2, they can donate to B2, and B1 can donate to C2, and so on! Thus the kidney chain is born. You get everyone together and have them agree that if their partner gets a kidney donation, they'll pass on the favor to someone else. All that's needed is a single purely-altruistic donor to start the fire. The longest such chain has reached over 100 people! [1] Anyway, the surgery is laparoscopic and has an extremely low fatality rate: around 1/10,000, which is an order of magnitude lower than the all-cause mortality rate for living a single year of your 20s. The kidney is a fairly isolated organ, basically only attached to you via the renal artery/vein, the ureter (which carries urine to your bladder), and some fascia (internal connective tissue). You can see a full video of the surgery at [2] (if you're into that kind of thing). I was walking within hours of the surgery, discharged within two days, and back in the gym within 5 weeks. My life is not any different than pre-donation, and if anything goes wrong with my remaining kidney I go to the top of the donation wait-list! If you're interested, you can see more info at [3]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IgA_nephropathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IgA_nephropathy [1] https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/quality/nation-s-longest-kidney-transplant-chain-surpasses-100-donations.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/quality/nation-s-longe... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-YhyYrMsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-YhyYrMsc [3] https://www.kidneyfund.org/kidney-disease/kidney-donation.html https://www.kidneyfund.org/kidney-disease/kidney-donation.ht...
- xoa 7y ago
  Kidney donation may be one of the most admirable and heroic things many people can do for another. I too have had family with renal failure (though I was not a match), and the potential to simply fix it with a match is wonderful. But anyone considering it should internalize upfront that there are potential real long term risks, and a surprising paucity of data since long term outcomes are apparently not rigorously followed. See for example "At 18 years old, he donated a kidney. Now, he regrets it"[0]. It's very much not to discourage anyone, but it'd be a shame to not go in with eyes wide open and have what should be something to be proud of marred by any feelings of deception. I have definitely seen the lack of hard long term data on real risks of kidney donation downplayed, it's not fair to portray "we don't see high risks" when that's because we just don't see much period. "Going to the top of the donation wait-list" for example is good, but there is in fact still a wait list. All that said, the positive vs negative ratio certainly still appears high depending on the situation. And developments like the one in this article could also reasonably factor into an individuals analysis, after all in 20-30 years it may be a solved problem with high quality synthetic organs, so a young person giving a kidney now is more helping to bridge the gap, and by the time they themselves might have an issue they'll have saved a life yet not have the same trouble. Even so, donators should fully recognize that, all of them should absolutely feel as good about it as you clearly do. ---- 0: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/at-18-years-old-he-donated-a-kidney-now-he-regrets-it/2016/09/30/cc9407d8-5ff9-11e6-8e45-477372e89d78_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/at-18...
mistrial9 7y ago
a USA Registered Nurse colleague casually mentioned while we were driving past one of the many, many chain store dialysis locations, that the service is inefficient and literally unsafe for many patients, and generally is over-prescribed. I assume because the drive-through model of the service, and the chain store, franchise-type setup, and reducing face-time with MDs, that this factory-like practice fits more to billing models and automation, so is chosen in a pseudo-market evolution. disclosure- I have no direct experience with kidney dialysis, nor known anyone who goes there.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  I was on dialysis in the UK - Um not sure what you mean though the US has less home dialysis and prefers Hemo vs CPD Dialysis helps you both stay alive and also helps extend the life of the failing kidneys - and a better outcome for a trasplant Normally based on my experience you are prescribed your dialysis based on your remaing kidney function. Dialysis is ideally a long process starting years before you start, combined with going on the transplant list (ideally you get the call before you go on dialysis) I was doing home CPD dialysis BTW

82 points by sohkamyung 7y ago

Changing/revolutionizing your diet from meat eater to vegeterian and or vegan with tons of water daily (3 liters) could make your kidneys healthier then they ever were. My function was 55 (not on dialysis) now 80 and increasing (healthiest kidney function is 120). Further ive read many stories of those on dialysis who changed the food they eat to vegetarian or vegan have gotten off of dialysis.

swsieber 7y ago
I'd like to second the diet bit, namely that it can be an effective tool in some cases. Specifically, I have a relative who has trouble maintaining healthy kidneys. The primary tactic she uses to mitigate things is to avoid meat.
- paul9290 7y ago
  That's good to hear! I have seen it work for 1000s in the Facebook group Natural Kidney Journey and across the Internet. Many success stories daily seen on that group match my positive results like your relative's same results. Not sure why there is such downvoting going on about suggesting becoming more healthy to better your life and or at least try it to see if it works. Those who are highly negative are you saying a kidney patient who goes vegetarian or vegan is hurting themselves? Love to hear your thoughts!
  - swsieber 7y ago
    Well, I mean she's kept things under control. I don't know if she (a nutritionist/dietician by training) would recommend radical diet changes while on dialysis. Also, your comment made it seem like diet change is a silver bullet, when it is not. My relative has had a couple of times where she's had to use medicine to keep her kidneys from going non-functional. I'm aware that you might not have intended it to frame diet change, but that's how it comes off.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  Probably only works for non chronic forms - but I have seen some one shut down their kidney function by mixing zinc tablets with prescription meds.
  - paul9290 7y ago
    In September I changed my diet and lifestyle... Decreased extreme workouts that raise creatine, stopped/will not take any form of meds or pills, started drinking 3 liters of water daily and started cooking all my meals At home. My diet was horrible before ..no water, chic fil grilled chicken each morning and outback/bar food almost nightly. Though it wasn't fried bar food I cut that out long ago but food prepared by you is always going to be healthier then eating out. So far my plant based renal doc and I are seeing positive results. Further I no longer have fluid build up when sitting for long periods.
127 7y ago
So, can you link the evidence for this?
- paul7986 7y ago
  I was diagnosed in September and looking back at my 2016 labs I see I had been living with only 55 percent kidney function (had no idea .. no symptoms.. you may not until it's too late) for whoever knows how long. Most doctors aren't helpful and just say it cant be reversed ... hogwash .. what you put in your body matters. If you feed it processed crap and crap that is harder to break down then water and a say a natural food like a carrot, apples, etc your no doubt stressing out your system more then you need to especially if you have kidney disease. Overall I didnt listen to the various stupid doctors I met with rather joined a facebook group called Natural Kidney Journey. My kidney function is healthier then ever as i was at stage 3a kidney disease now my kidney function is 80 percent and climbing after 7 months of revolutionizing my diet. If you were to join that Facebook group too you would see many similar stories like mine daily. Further the creator of the group along with others in the group are now dialysis free .. see Don Davis's story https://www.forksoverknives.com/from-3-percent-kidney-function-to-dialysis-free-on-a-whole-food-plant-based-diet/#gs.zx4q7z https://www.forksoverknives.com/from-3-percent-kidney-functi...
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    No offense, but your story doesn’t exactly inspire confidence…
    - paul9290 7y ago
      It's all good I'm just telling my personal story (and results) in the hope it helps some ppl who are interested in doing more then nothing. Changing your diet may work for others too while some it may not. You never know til you try and eating better is an overall good thing for the body.
reportgunner 7y ago
Why aren't doctors prescribing this ?
- sten 7y ago
  I thought diet intervention is the primary treatment prior to dialysis. With the goal of prolonging the time until mechanical intervention or replacement becomes necessary. But I've never heard of diet alone taking someone off dialysis and a quick search for papers on the subject shows mostly positive associations of a reduction in protein on kidney function but nothing suggesting a magic bullet. *edit To add, I have a couple of associates at my office approaching kidney failure. They're all on diet interventions to reduce protein and potassium. Not sure how the potassium interacts with it but I'm not a doctor either.
  - silencio 7y ago
    diet plays a huge role in kidney disease management for sure. potassium is a big deal since it is filtered out by the kidneys and if your kidney function is lowered, dangerous levels could build up and possibly lead to a heart attack. on the flip side you generally have to start ramping up protein intake once on dialysis. but agreed that this isn’t straightforward and if it was so easy, people wouldn’t be on dialysis and renal dietitians would be overjoyed. it’s infuriating to read the other comments suggesting it’s all some garbage american diet.
    - paul7986 7y ago
      Why is it infatuating... im just telling what has worked for me and 1,000s of others. What harm will come from someone who is stage 3a to change their diet to uber healthy and increase water intake? Are you a doctor? It is everyones choice to make the best choices for themselves .. try things to see what works. I get labs monthly and review my progress/success with my renal doc. I finally found one who preaches diet change cause she has seen many patient success stories herself.
      - aketchum 7y ago
silencio 7y ago
this is incredibly dangerous advice for someone already on dialysis. there’s no fluid restriction for ckd until you hit esrd, in which case 3 liters a day consistently will damage your heart.
- paul7986 7y ago
  Im not on dialysis im saying how Ive made my kidneys healthier then they have ever been. From 55 kidney function to 80 (in 7 months) and increasing. I follow the FB Group Natural Kidney Journey .. the person who set it up is now dialysis free (im not sure about his water intake) https://www.forksoverknives.com/from-3-percent-kidney-function-to-dialysis-free-on-a-whole-food-plant-based-diet/#gs.zx4q7z https://www.forksoverknives.com/from-3-percent-kidney-functi... Overall downvote me all you want i was just wanted to tell others that going uber healthy with your diet is a good thing (logically it is an no one can disagree with that) and it has helped me increase and continues to increase my function.

ahelwer 7y ago

My older sister had end-stage renal failure (from IgA nephropathy [0]) and was on dialysis, so I donated my kidney to her. If you want to make an incredible difference in someone's life, I can't recommend it enough! There are cool computer science problems involved: imagine person A1 wants to donate their kidney to their partner A2 but they aren't a match. Now imagine many such pairs exist (B1/B2, C1/C2, D1/D2 etc.) and you start noticing that while A1 can't donate to A2, they can donate to B2, and B1 can donate to C2, and so on! Thus the kidney chain is born. You get everyone together and have them agree that if their partner gets a kidney donation, they'll pass on the favor to someone else. All that's needed is a single purely-altruistic donor to start the fire. The longest such chain has reached over 100 people! [1] Anyway, the surgery is laparoscopic and has an extremely low fatality rate: around 1/10,000, which is an order of magnitude lower than the all-cause mortality rate for living a single year of your 20s. The kidney is a fairly isolated organ, basically only attached to you via the renal artery/vein, the ureter (which carries urine to your bladder), and some fascia (internal connective tissue). You can see a full video of the surgery at [2] (if you're into that kind of thing). I was walking within hours of the surgery, discharged within two days, and back in the gym within 5 weeks. My life is not any different than pre-donation, and if anything goes wrong with my remaining kidney I go to the top of the donation wait-list! If you're interested, you can see more info at [3]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IgA_nephropathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IgA_nephropathy [1] https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/quality/nation-s-longest-kidney-transplant-chain-surpasses-100-donations.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/quality/nation-s-longe... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-YhyYrMsc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-YhyYrMsc [3] https://www.kidneyfund.org/kidney-disease/kidney-donation.html https://www.kidneyfund.org/kidney-disease/kidney-donation.ht...

xoa 7y ago
Kidney donation may be one of the most admirable and heroic things many people can do for another. I too have had family with renal failure (though I was not a match), and the potential to simply fix it with a match is wonderful. But anyone considering it should internalize upfront that there are potential real long term risks, and a surprising paucity of data since long term outcomes are apparently not rigorously followed. See for example "At 18 years old, he donated a kidney. Now, he regrets it"[0]. It's very much not to discourage anyone, but it'd be a shame to not go in with eyes wide open and have what should be something to be proud of marred by any feelings of deception. I have definitely seen the lack of hard long term data on real risks of kidney donation downplayed, it's not fair to portray "we don't see high risks" when that's because we just don't see much period. "Going to the top of the donation wait-list" for example is good, but there is in fact still a wait list. All that said, the positive vs negative ratio certainly still appears high depending on the situation. And developments like the one in this article could also reasonably factor into an individuals analysis, after all in 20-30 years it may be a solved problem with high quality synthetic organs, so a young person giving a kidney now is more helping to bridge the gap, and by the time they themselves might have an issue they'll have saved a life yet not have the same trouble. Even so, donators should fully recognize that, all of them should absolutely feel as good about it as you clearly do. ---- 0: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/at-18-years-old-he-donated-a-kidney-now-he-regrets-it/2016/09/30/cc9407d8-5ff9-11e6-8e45-477372e89d78_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/at-18...

mistrial9 7y ago

a USA Registered Nurse colleague casually mentioned while we were driving past one of the many, many chain store dialysis locations, that the service is inefficient and literally unsafe for many patients, and generally is over-prescribed. I assume because the drive-through model of the service, and the chain store, franchise-type setup, and reducing face-time with MDs, that this factory-like practice fits more to billing models and automation, so is chosen in a pseudo-market evolution. disclosure- I have no direct experience with kidney dialysis, nor known anyone who goes there.

C1sc0cat 7y ago
I was on dialysis in the UK - Um not sure what you mean though the US has less home dialysis and prefers Hemo vs CPD Dialysis helps you both stay alive and also helps extend the life of the failing kidneys - and a better outcome for a trasplant Normally based on my experience you are prescribed your dialysis based on your remaing kidney function. Dialysis is ideally a long process starting years before you start, combined with going on the transplant list (ideally you get the call before you go on dialysis) I was doing home CPD dialysis BTW