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There's sooooo many lies being propagated by different governments on the true state of things. This afternoon I watched a live broadcast of parliament in which

There's sooooo many lies being propagated by different governments on the true state of things. This afternoon I watched a live broadcast of parliament in which the minister of health claimed Belgium was doing far more extensive testing than any other country on earth. This at a time when standing instructions to medical personnel are to only test people that are already admitted to hospital because of severe pulmonary conditions. It is impossible to get a test under any other circumstance as all test request have to follow a central approvement procedure and non are approved barring these conditions. These outright lies are propagated by the political parties that are far more concerned with 'the economy' than with any public health. It is really saddening that his is going on.

arcturus17 7y ago
I've seen English politicians constantly boast on TV that they've caught it very early and they've done better than anyone in the world...
- christoph 7y ago
  As a UK citizen I am honestly terrified by my governments response and actions. In years to come I fear it’s going to be the textbook example of exactly how not to manage these types of situations.
  - kjakm 7y ago
    I thought that - but then I watched today's press conference with the chief scientific adviser and chief medical adviser. They made some very good cases for not locking stuff down just yet. Primarily you need to consider the behaviour of people. This is going to go on for a while no matter what we do and if we lockdown people now, by the time we hit the peak they will be ready to give up and go outside again. We need to save the drastic measures for the peak in order to spread the damage out and make sure they are effective. I was previously critical of the government but honestly I think it makes a lot of sense. We need to consider the effectiveness of measures. Banning all flights into the US from Europe may sound like a grand plan but in reality it's not going to make a big dent and the economic damage is going to be huge. But it sounds good and in the current climate where we're being led by panic that's the plan people will like.
    - cvwright 7y ago
      Until today, European airlines were flying empty “ghost” planes because they had no passengers, but they wanted to keep their landing slots. Yesterday I talked to a colleague who relayed the story of a transatlantic flight this week, where only 6 seats were filled, out of 36 in the section. I don’t think there’s much remaining travel left to be banned. The resulting economic impact therefore can’t be that big.
      - kjakm 7y ago
        >> The resulting economic impact therefore can’t be that big. The impact on the spread of the virus can't be that big either. My point though is that big flashy moves like banning all flights appear to do very little compared to more mundane tactics. At least based on the info in the press conference I'm referring to the data doesn't support flight bans, banning large gatherings etc.
        adnzzzzZ 7y ago
        You shouldn't discount the psychological factor of these things. Today, 1 day after the big move by the US to ban flights from Europe, we're seeing a lot more movement from various governments and states in taking action against the virus' spread. So even though the action itself might not be that useful, it's big enough that it gets people attention and it seems to have moved people across governments into more action.
        kjakm 7y ago
        True but I'd still go back to the UK advice: the virus is going to spread (we aren't going to stop it) so we need to focus on spreading the peak out so we can deal with it. If we force people to make drastic changes too early (well before the peak) then when we actually need them to make those changes (just before the peak) they will be burnt out and won't do it nearly as effectively.
        J-dawg 7y ago
  - J-dawg 7y ago
    One thing I don't understand is how the UK infection rate has stayed so low up until now. It seems to be pretty much blind luck.
    - rasz 7y ago
      They dont test people, its that simple.
selimthegrim 7y ago
The surgeon general just gave a press conference in Baton Rouge with the governor of Louisiana saying we should only test people (or prioritize testing of) people with symptoms. This when we know asymptomatic people can be contagious for days. The Port of New Orleans is testing embarking cruise ship passengers but not disembarking (!) ones. This when we have community spread in the parish already and have gone from 1 to 6 to 11 cases this week alone.
- 2rsf 7y ago
  > we know asymptomatic people can be contagious for days Although it is technically correct, this is the least contagious way. AFAIK most sick people were near sick persons for a considerable amount of time. [0] https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryou/dengue_fever_qa_00014.htmlhttps://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryou/dengue_fever_qa_00014.html https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryo...
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    Your link is giving a 404. (It looks like it's pasted in twice.) And with regard to the cruise ships, see Question 13 of your linked FAQ. It seems false positives are a real thing [1] but can we afford even one asymptomatic infected individual that might be a super spreader? In shifting away from containment are we just accepting these? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22566923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22566923
    - harrier 7y ago
      His link had the url twice concatenated. If you remove that part then it works [1]. Here is a google translation of the relevant section: > Although the possibility of transmission from an asymptomatic person has been reported （https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001468） https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001468）, little is known on how Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) spreads from person to person. Generally speaking, with most respiratory viruses, people are thought to be most contagious when they are most symptomatic. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission... That CDC link [2] states that: > People are thought to be most contagious when they are most symptomatic (the sickest). Some spread might be possible before people show symptoms; there have been reports of this occurring with this new coronavirus, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads. [1] https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryou/dengue_fever_qa_00014.html#Q2 https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryo... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission...
pif 7y ago
> There's sooooo many lies being propagated by different governments Just a question, if I may: how do you know that? Which international sources do you have that justify you releasing such a strong statement?
- PeterStuer 7y ago
  Over here, the parliamentary debate was streamed publicly. The instructions issued to medical personnel are also posted public. There were HUGE discrepancies between those 2 sources of 'information', the quotes being added for the former case. As such I have 100% certainty. I was validated later that night when despite our health minister claiming that 'we have it 100% under control' and our prime minister stating we were NOT going to be moving beyond 'stage 2' for now, a few hours later we moved to 'stage 3' and declared a national emergency. Now for the speculation: Among those closer and more knowledgeable than me the rumor has it the health sector threatened the government to go public with the real state of affairs in the hospitals and in first line care if they would continue to refuse to take serious action.

arcturus17 7y ago

I've seen English politicians constantly boast on TV that they've caught it very early and they've done better than anyone in the world...

christoph 7y ago
As a UK citizen I am honestly terrified by my governments response and actions. In years to come I fear it’s going to be the textbook example of exactly how not to manage these types of situations.
- kjakm 7y ago
  I thought that - but then I watched today's press conference with the chief scientific adviser and chief medical adviser. They made some very good cases for not locking stuff down just yet. Primarily you need to consider the behaviour of people. This is going to go on for a while no matter what we do and if we lockdown people now, by the time we hit the peak they will be ready to give up and go outside again. We need to save the drastic measures for the peak in order to spread the damage out and make sure they are effective. I was previously critical of the government but honestly I think it makes a lot of sense. We need to consider the effectiveness of measures. Banning all flights into the US from Europe may sound like a grand plan but in reality it's not going to make a big dent and the economic damage is going to be huge. But it sounds good and in the current climate where we're being led by panic that's the plan people will like.
  - cvwright 7y ago
    Until today, European airlines were flying empty “ghost” planes because they had no passengers, but they wanted to keep their landing slots. Yesterday I talked to a colleague who relayed the story of a transatlantic flight this week, where only 6 seats were filled, out of 36 in the section. I don’t think there’s much remaining travel left to be banned. The resulting economic impact therefore can’t be that big.
    - kjakm 7y ago
      >> The resulting economic impact therefore can’t be that big. The impact on the spread of the virus can't be that big either. My point though is that big flashy moves like banning all flights appear to do very little compared to more mundane tactics. At least based on the info in the press conference I'm referring to the data doesn't support flight bans, banning large gatherings etc.
      - adnzzzzZ 7y ago
        You shouldn't discount the psychological factor of these things. Today, 1 day after the big move by the US to ban flights from Europe, we're seeing a lot more movement from various governments and states in taking action against the virus' spread. So even though the action itself might not be that useful, it's big enough that it gets people attention and it seems to have moved people across governments into more action.
        kjakm 7y ago
        True but I'd still go back to the UK advice: the virus is going to spread (we aren't going to stop it) so we need to focus on spreading the peak out so we can deal with it. If we force people to make drastic changes too early (well before the peak) then when we actually need them to make those changes (just before the peak) they will be burnt out and won't do it nearly as effectively.
        J-dawg 7y ago
- J-dawg 7y ago
  One thing I don't understand is how the UK infection rate has stayed so low up until now. It seems to be pretty much blind luck.
  - rasz 7y ago
    They dont test people, its that simple.

selimthegrim 7y ago

The surgeon general just gave a press conference in Baton Rouge with the governor of Louisiana saying we should only test people (or prioritize testing of) people with symptoms. This when we know asymptomatic people can be contagious for days. The Port of New Orleans is testing embarking cruise ship passengers but not disembarking (!) ones. This when we have community spread in the parish already and have gone from 1 to 6 to 11 cases this week alone.

2rsf 7y ago
> we know asymptomatic people can be contagious for days Although it is technically correct, this is the least contagious way. AFAIK most sick people were near sick persons for a considerable amount of time. [0] https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryou/dengue_fever_qa_00014.htmlhttps://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryou/dengue_fever_qa_00014.html https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryo...
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Your link is giving a 404. (It looks like it's pasted in twice.) And with regard to the cruise ships, see Question 13 of your linked FAQ. It seems false positives are a real thing [1] but can we afford even one asymptomatic infected individual that might be a super spreader? In shifting away from containment are we just accepting these? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22566923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22566923
  - harrier 7y ago
    His link had the url twice concatenated. If you remove that part then it works [1]. Here is a google translation of the relevant section: > Although the possibility of transmission from an asymptomatic person has been reported （https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001468） https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001468）, little is known on how Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) spreads from person to person. Generally speaking, with most respiratory viruses, people are thought to be most contagious when they are most symptomatic. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission... That CDC link [2] states that: > People are thought to be most contagious when they are most symptomatic (the sickest). Some spread might be possible before people show symptoms; there have been reports of this occurring with this new coronavirus, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads. [1] https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryou/dengue_fever_qa_00014.html#Q2 https://www.mhlw.go.jp/stf/seisakunitsuite/bunya/kenkou_iryo... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission...

pif 7y ago

> There's sooooo many lies being propagated by different governments Just a question, if I may: how do you know that? Which international sources do you have that justify you releasing such a strong statement?

PeterStuer 7y ago
Over here, the parliamentary debate was streamed publicly. The instructions issued to medical personnel are also posted public. There were HUGE discrepancies between those 2 sources of 'information', the quotes being added for the former case. As such I have 100% certainty. I was validated later that night when despite our health minister claiming that 'we have it 100% under control' and our prime minister stating we were NOT going to be moving beyond 'stage 2' for now, a few hours later we moved to 'stage 3' and declared a national emergency. Now for the speculation: Among those closer and more knowledgeable than me the rumor has it the health sector threatened the government to go public with the real state of affairs in the hospitals and in first line care if they would continue to refuse to take serious action.