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a lot of the harm attributed to vaping is after-market / black-market oils Could you perhaps elaborate on these oils? Is there a list of safe, high-quality

a lot of the harm attributed to vaping is after-market / black-market oils Could you perhaps elaborate on these oils? Is there a list of safe, high-quality oils somewhere? Certified perhaps?

leetcrew 7y ago
GP is referring to the fact that the recent widespread vaping illness was caused by illicit cannabis cartridges (in particular, one or more cutting agents used). I doubt there is anything like a certified list of safe products, but the recent scare is unrelated to products sold through legal distribution chains.
techbio 7y ago
Vape liquid base is propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin. Oils don't belong in vape juice at all. Black market "chemists" (thanks, drug war!) put Vitamin-E acetate in to stretch out the thing people wanted (THC), with the thing that killed several of them. Press and the Pres used the hysteria to ban the flavors people (not just teens) like.
stan_rogers 7y ago
Specifically, the only confirmed correlations to any class of products were to THC cartridges using tocopheryl acetate (colloquially, Vitamin E acetate) as a diluant/cutting agent. That should never have happened in legitimate THC products, but it was pretty much guaranteed to happen with street and counterfeit carts. A similar sort of thing can happen with nicotine e-liquids if they're made with oil/lipid-based flavourings - stuff that people who don't know what they're doing might pick up from grocery, craft and health food stores. (Flavourings sold for vaping are water-soluble. That's not to say that all of them are as safe as they could be, particularly as it concerns saccharides, which can produce carcinogenic compounds when overheated/burned.) There have been a small handful of cases worldwide of idiopathic reactions to whatever was being vaped by the user; that's pretty much par for the course with anything that isn't pure air or water going into a human - somebody, somewhere is going to going to be hurt by something literally everybody else's body ignores.
beenBoutIT 7y ago
Even if the vape juices were manufactured with only ACS grade chemicals free of impurities there isn't much meaningful data on the health impact of 'vaping' said chemicals. Vaping data won't be meaningful until there's a standardized vaping device made of non-reactive components (stainless steel, glass, PTFE, etc.) to use in clinical trials.
beloch 7y ago
Black market goods aren't going to be certified by anyone you can trust, nor can you trust black market goods to contain what they claim to contain. People harming themselves with unsafe illegal goods is one of the costs of making certain substances illegal and taxing others so heavily that black market demand for them can thrive. Governments should weigh the harm done by black market goods against the benefits of substance control. Regulations and certifications don't necessarily make things safe, but they at least help protect people from things known to be dangerous. Put black market goods in your lungs at your own peril.
JamesBarney 7y ago
Buying your oil from a billion-dollar company is pretty safe. Buying it from a licensed and legal smoke shop, less safe. Buying from a sketchy dude out of his car or apartment very unsafe.
TallGuyShort 7y ago
So I'm totally not a vaping expert, I just know that in every case that I read about of someone being hospitalized because of vaping, it was because of such oils. My understanding is that the "juices" these devices are designed for and most of the mainstream ones from the "official" sources are water-based fluids with a small amount of drug and flavoring added. I believe vaping oil is quite problematic, regardless of the source. No idea if "black market" oils have actually been adding bad things to the oils, or what. Like I said, not an expert myself.
WalterSear 7y ago
It was two related companies in New York state, and both have been shut down.

a lot of the harm attributed to vaping is after-market / black-market oils Could you perhaps elaborate on these oils? Is there a list of safe, high-quality oils somewhere? Certified perhaps?

leetcrew 7y ago

GP is referring to the fact that the recent widespread vaping illness was caused by illicit cannabis cartridges (in particular, one or more cutting agents used). I doubt there is anything like a certified list of safe products, but the recent scare is unrelated to products sold through legal distribution chains.

techbio 7y ago

Vape liquid base is propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin. Oils don't belong in vape juice at all. Black market "chemists" (thanks, drug war!) put Vitamin-E acetate in to stretch out the thing people wanted (THC), with the thing that killed several of them. Press and the Pres used the hysteria to ban the flavors people (not just teens) like.

stan_rogers 7y ago

Specifically, the only confirmed correlations to any class of products were to THC cartridges using tocopheryl acetate (colloquially, Vitamin E acetate) as a diluant/cutting agent. That should never have happened in legitimate THC products, but it was pretty much guaranteed to happen with street and counterfeit carts. A similar sort of thing can happen with nicotine e-liquids if they're made with oil/lipid-based flavourings - stuff that people who don't know what they're doing might pick up from grocery, craft and health food stores. (Flavourings sold for vaping are water-soluble. That's not to say that all of them are as safe as they could be, particularly as it concerns saccharides, which can produce carcinogenic compounds when overheated/burned.) There have been a small handful of cases worldwide of idiopathic reactions to whatever was being vaped by the user; that's pretty much par for the course with anything that isn't pure air or water going into a human - somebody, somewhere is going to going to be hurt by something literally everybody else's body ignores.

beenBoutIT 7y ago

Even if the vape juices were manufactured with only ACS grade chemicals free of impurities there isn't much meaningful data on the health impact of 'vaping' said chemicals. Vaping data won't be meaningful until there's a standardized vaping device made of non-reactive components (stainless steel, glass, PTFE, etc.) to use in clinical trials.

beloch 7y ago

Black market goods aren't going to be certified by anyone you can trust, nor can you trust black market goods to contain what they claim to contain. People harming themselves with unsafe illegal goods is one of the costs of making certain substances illegal and taxing others so heavily that black market demand for them can thrive. Governments should weigh the harm done by black market goods against the benefits of substance control. Regulations and certifications don't necessarily make things safe, but they at least help protect people from things known to be dangerous. Put black market goods in your lungs at your own peril.

JamesBarney 7y ago

Buying your oil from a billion-dollar company is pretty safe. Buying it from a licensed and legal smoke shop, less safe. Buying from a sketchy dude out of his car or apartment very unsafe.

TallGuyShort 7y ago

So I'm totally not a vaping expert, I just know that in every case that I read about of someone being hospitalized because of vaping, it was because of such oils. My understanding is that the "juices" these devices are designed for and most of the mainstream ones from the "official" sources are water-based fluids with a small amount of drug and flavoring added. I believe vaping oil is quite problematic, regardless of the source. No idea if "black market" oils have actually been adding bad things to the oils, or what. Like I said, not an expert myself.

WalterSear 7y ago

It was two related companies in New York state, and both have been shut down.