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Juul Co-Founder James Monsees Is Stepping Down

95 points by coloneltcb 7y ago

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
Kate Conger pointed out on Twitter that today's a really good day to dump your corporate bad news.
m0zg 7y ago
Good timing. Given Juul's popularity and their product's likely effect of weakening the lungs, I'm sure the lawsuits after COVID19 dust settles will be for the history books.
- samatman 7y ago
  Benzoic acid (as sodium benzoate) is a preservative, so for all we know, Juul juice is protective against lung infections. To be clear, I don’t believe this. Just thought one data-deficient argument deserved another.
allovernow 7y ago
Sort of off topic, but aside from addictive potential there is very little in the way of evidence that vaping is harmful. And it's been around for some 15 years now - probably long enough to show some degree of long term harm. Similarly, nicotine is guilty by association, I've been unable to find any literature pointing harm from consumption. Now here's some speculation to take with a grain of salt - nicotine may offer a protective effect against 2019-ncov. We've known for a while that nicotine downregulates ACE2 receptors, and someone did an unofficial, but comprehensive meta review for SARS, MERS, and 2019-ncov and found that former and current smokers were significantly underrepresented among infected cases. Yes, it's a Reddit post, but the sources are all there and you can review and judge them for yourself.[1] 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/faluhv/an_exhaustive_lit_search_shows_that_only_585_sars/ https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/faluhv/an_exhausti...
- TallGuyShort 7y ago
  Interesting that infected cases were down. However of the infected cases, smoking is believed to be a major factor in the seriousness of the disease and potential for death (I don't know off-hand if that was based on data, or if it was humanity's best attempt at a reasonable understanding of a respiratory disease / general trait of pneumonia). So... yet another reason why vaping is great as long as it's primarily getting fewer people to smoke. But yes - a lot of the harm attributed to vaping is after-market / black-market oils, and it's silly for Juul to carry all that blame. I'm not a fan of nanny state-type laws anyway.
  - wozniacki 7y ago
    a lot of the harm attributed to vaping is after-market / black-market oils Could you perhaps elaborate on these oils? Is there a list of safe, high-quality oils somewhere? Certified perhaps?
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      GP is referring to the fact that the recent widespread vaping illness was caused by illicit cannabis cartridges (in particular, one or more cutting agents used). I doubt there is anything like a certified list of safe products, but the recent scare is unrelated to products sold through legal distribution chains.
    - techbio 7y ago
      Vape liquid base is propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin. Oils don't belong in vape juice at all. Black market "chemists" (thanks, drug war!) put Vitamin-E acetate in to stretch out the thing people wanted (THC), with the thing that killed several of them. Press and the Pres used the hysteria to ban the flavors people (not just teens) like.
    - stan_rogers 7y ago
      Specifically, the only confirmed correlations to any class of products were to THC cartridges using tocopheryl acetate (colloquially, Vitamin E acetate) as a diluant/cutting agent. That should never have happened in legitimate THC products, but it was pretty much guaranteed to happen with street and counterfeit carts. A similar sort of thing can happen with nicotine e-liquids if they're made with oil/lipid-based flavourings - stuff that people who don't know what they're doing might pick up from grocery, craft and health food stores. (Flavourings sold for vaping are water-soluble. That's not to say that all of them are as safe as they could be, particularly as it concerns saccharides, which can produce carcinogenic compounds when overheated/burned.) There have been a small handful of cases worldwide of idiopathic reactions to whatever was being vaped by the user; that's pretty much par for the course with anything that isn't pure air or water going into a human - somebody, somewhere is going to going to be hurt by something literally everybody else's body ignores.
exogeny 7y ago
Even if I ignore all the different kinds of high school outreach they did, it’s obvious that they designed it to look like a USB stick quite intentionally. Fuck this guy.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  first of all, what is wrong with intentionally making it look like a USB stick? second, is it possible that a flat rectangular box just happens to be the ideal form factor for a small electronic device meant to go in someone's pocket? of all the nefarious intentions attributed to juul, this seems like an odd one.
  - neaden 7y ago
    It's to make it easier for teenagers to sneak into schools. This product was designed from the ground up with the goal of getting teens to use it.
    - drcross 7y ago
      That's a tenuous link to make. Vaping has contributed to harm reduction for a lot of people trying to get of cigarettes and they should be applauded for that.
      - ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
        You know full well that isn't all of it. People don't choose mango flavour to stop smoking.
        samatman 7y ago
        I did. I’m more than twice as old as the oldest high school student. By the way, screw you, specifically, and every other morally-panicked scold who have made it illegal to buy my preferred flavors off the shelf. Hope you’re proud.
catacombs 7y ago
But how much will his exit package be?
rdxm 7y ago
special place in hell for guys like this....
WilTimSon 7y ago
I don't like e-cigarettes one way or another but I have to say, I admire the decision to step down from any CEO. Too many of them hang on to the product for a long time even when they're already billionaires (or at least in the higher echelons of multimillionaires.) I'd much rather see the more successful people exercise mobility and try their hand at new projects. If you have the skills and knowledge to make a revolutionary product, why stop at one?
- ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
  In general I agree with you, but in this case I'm hoping he stops at one product, because it looks like he is inclined to create products that can potentially hurt society a lot.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Bezos has been CEO for 25 years. Did he stop at one product?
  - WilTimSon 7y ago
    Well, if you remain a CEO at the same company but keep making new products, that's good. I'm talking more about CEO's like Zuckerberg, who've been sitting on their throne for years without any fresh input into the creative field. Much as I dislike the guy, surely he has some ideas to try.
apta 7y ago
Unethical and dangerous company. Hopefully the entire industry goes down.

95 points by coloneltcb 7y ago

Kate Conger pointed out on Twitter that today's a really good day to dump your corporate bad news.

m0zg 7y ago

Good timing. Given Juul's popularity and their product's likely effect of weakening the lungs, I'm sure the lawsuits after COVID19 dust settles will be for the history books.

samatman 7y ago
Benzoic acid (as sodium benzoate) is a preservative, so for all we know, Juul juice is protective against lung infections. To be clear, I don’t believe this. Just thought one data-deficient argument deserved another.

allovernow 7y ago

Sort of off topic, but aside from addictive potential there is very little in the way of evidence that vaping is harmful. And it's been around for some 15 years now - probably long enough to show some degree of long term harm. Similarly, nicotine is guilty by association, I've been unable to find any literature pointing harm from consumption. Now here's some speculation to take with a grain of salt - nicotine may offer a protective effect against 2019-ncov. We've known for a while that nicotine downregulates ACE2 receptors, and someone did an unofficial, but comprehensive meta review for SARS, MERS, and 2019-ncov and found that former and current smokers were significantly underrepresented among infected cases. Yes, it's a Reddit post, but the sources are all there and you can review and judge them for yourself.[1] 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/faluhv/an_exhaustive_lit_search_shows_that_only_585_sars/ https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/faluhv/an_exhausti...

TallGuyShort 7y ago
Interesting that infected cases were down. However of the infected cases, smoking is believed to be a major factor in the seriousness of the disease and potential for death (I don't know off-hand if that was based on data, or if it was humanity's best attempt at a reasonable understanding of a respiratory disease / general trait of pneumonia). So... yet another reason why vaping is great as long as it's primarily getting fewer people to smoke. But yes - a lot of the harm attributed to vaping is after-market / black-market oils, and it's silly for Juul to carry all that blame. I'm not a fan of nanny state-type laws anyway.
- wozniacki 7y ago
  a lot of the harm attributed to vaping is after-market / black-market oils Could you perhaps elaborate on these oils? Is there a list of safe, high-quality oils somewhere? Certified perhaps?
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    GP is referring to the fact that the recent widespread vaping illness was caused by illicit cannabis cartridges (in particular, one or more cutting agents used). I doubt there is anything like a certified list of safe products, but the recent scare is unrelated to products sold through legal distribution chains.
  - techbio 7y ago
    Vape liquid base is propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin. Oils don't belong in vape juice at all. Black market "chemists" (thanks, drug war!) put Vitamin-E acetate in to stretch out the thing people wanted (THC), with the thing that killed several of them. Press and the Pres used the hysteria to ban the flavors people (not just teens) like.
  - stan_rogers 7y ago
    Specifically, the only confirmed correlations to any class of products were to THC cartridges using tocopheryl acetate (colloquially, Vitamin E acetate) as a diluant/cutting agent. That should never have happened in legitimate THC products, but it was pretty much guaranteed to happen with street and counterfeit carts. A similar sort of thing can happen with nicotine e-liquids if they're made with oil/lipid-based flavourings - stuff that people who don't know what they're doing might pick up from grocery, craft and health food stores. (Flavourings sold for vaping are water-soluble. That's not to say that all of them are as safe as they could be, particularly as it concerns saccharides, which can produce carcinogenic compounds when overheated/burned.) There have been a small handful of cases worldwide of idiopathic reactions to whatever was being vaped by the user; that's pretty much par for the course with anything that isn't pure air or water going into a human - somebody, somewhere is going to going to be hurt by something literally everybody else's body ignores.

exogeny 7y ago

Even if I ignore all the different kinds of high school outreach they did, it’s obvious that they designed it to look like a USB stick quite intentionally. Fuck this guy.

leetcrew 7y ago
first of all, what is wrong with intentionally making it look like a USB stick? second, is it possible that a flat rectangular box just happens to be the ideal form factor for a small electronic device meant to go in someone's pocket? of all the nefarious intentions attributed to juul, this seems like an odd one.
- neaden 7y ago
  It's to make it easier for teenagers to sneak into schools. This product was designed from the ground up with the goal of getting teens to use it.
  - drcross 7y ago
    That's a tenuous link to make. Vaping has contributed to harm reduction for a lot of people trying to get of cigarettes and they should be applauded for that.
    - ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
      You know full well that isn't all of it. People don't choose mango flavour to stop smoking.
      - samatman 7y ago
        I did. I’m more than twice as old as the oldest high school student. By the way, screw you, specifically, and every other morally-panicked scold who have made it illegal to buy my preferred flavors off the shelf. Hope you’re proud.

catacombs 7y ago

But how much will his exit package be?

rdxm 7y ago

special place in hell for guys like this....

WilTimSon 7y ago

I don't like e-cigarettes one way or another but I have to say, I admire the decision to step down from any CEO. Too many of them hang on to the product for a long time even when they're already billionaires (or at least in the higher echelons of multimillionaires.) I'd much rather see the more successful people exercise mobility and try their hand at new projects. If you have the skills and knowledge to make a revolutionary product, why stop at one?

ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
In general I agree with you, but in this case I'm hoping he stops at one product, because it looks like he is inclined to create products that can potentially hurt society a lot.
lonelappde 7y ago
Bezos has been CEO for 25 years. Did he stop at one product?
- WilTimSon 7y ago
  Well, if you remain a CEO at the same company but keep making new products, that's good. I'm talking more about CEO's like Zuckerberg, who've been sitting on their throne for years without any fresh input into the creative field. Much as I dislike the guy, surely he has some ideas to try.

apta 7y ago

Unethical and dangerous company. Hopefully the entire industry goes down.