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My understanding is iPhones enable full disk encryption when a pass-code is created, even if it's fairly weak (1112), you can't have a passcode or password and

My understanding is iPhones enable full disk encryption when a pass-code is created, even if it's fairly weak (1112), you can't have a passcode or password and not have full disk encryption. Android Devices past 9 do not support full disk encryption and instead use file based encryption, and as far as I know just having a password doesn't necessarily mean FBE is turned on.

tialaramex 7y ago
If you have a modern Google branded device (say, a Pixel) encryption is mandatory out of the box. Something older (and so insecure by default because it isn't receiving security updates) like the Nexus 10 tablet has an actual user interaction step to enable encryption.
h4waii 7y ago
iOS has essentially always used FBE and not FDE, you can see more about this in the iOS Security Guide [0], while yes, versions of Android up to 7.0 only allowed FDE. Google has since done away with FDE and it's no longer supported by AOSP in version 10 and above, where FBE is enforced. Whether or not this is more or less secure really depends on your threat level. IMHO, turned on, the data is more secure if apps are configured properly with FBE. Turned off, data is more secure with FDE (assuming both scenarios the same key). 0. https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf
WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
So that's kinda weird now, because iPhones under APFS do File-Based encryption (each file gets it's own key) but the Full Disk is encrypted while Androids are now using Full Disk Encryption.
tinus_hn 7y ago
It never works like this because then it would take hours to set your pincode. What actually happens is the disk or each file is encrypted and the key is protected or unprotected, depending on passcodes. On iOS the files are encrypted so that some of them become available at boot, some the first time you unlock the device and some only while the device is locked. On modern devices the key protection is managed by the security chip/Secure Enclave zo it can both attempt to limit attempts to a number of times and prevent people from brute forcing the key because only the chip can run attempts which are purposely made slow. Typically Cellebrite like tools bypass the lockouts but still have brute forcing limited so it only practically works on short or poor pin or passcodes. Still, it’s unlikely a device is going to remain safe for 15 years, if the adversary is patient it’ll eventually be unlocked; technology advances and bugs are found in everything.

tialaramex 7y ago

If you have a modern Google branded device (say, a Pixel) encryption is mandatory out of the box. Something older (and so insecure by default because it isn't receiving security updates) like the Nexus 10 tablet has an actual user interaction step to enable encryption.

h4waii 7y ago

iOS has essentially always used FBE and not FDE, you can see more about this in the iOS Security Guide [0], while yes, versions of Android up to 7.0 only allowed FDE. Google has since done away with FDE and it's no longer supported by AOSP in version 10 and above, where FBE is enforced. Whether or not this is more or less secure really depends on your threat level. IMHO, turned on, the data is more secure if apps are configured properly with FBE. Turned off, data is more secure with FDE (assuming both scenarios the same key). 0. https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago

So that's kinda weird now, because iPhones under APFS do File-Based encryption (each file gets it's own key) but the Full Disk is encrypted while Androids are now using Full Disk Encryption.

tinus_hn 7y ago

It never works like this because then it would take hours to set your pincode. What actually happens is the disk or each file is encrypted and the key is protected or unprotected, depending on passcodes. On iOS the files are encrypted so that some of them become available at boot, some the first time you unlock the device and some only while the device is locked. On modern devices the key protection is managed by the security chip/Secure Enclave zo it can both attempt to limit attempts to a number of times and prevent people from brute forcing the key because only the chip can run attempts which are purposely made slow. Typically Cellebrite like tools bypass the lockouts but still have brute forcing limited so it only practically works on short or poor pin or passcodes. Still, it’s unlikely a device is going to remain safe for 15 years, if the adversary is patient it’ll eventually be unlocked; technology advances and bugs are found in everything.