5 ms·

As they are specifically talking about new programmers, using gdb in your example effectively communicates and confirms their point.

saagarjha 7y ago
GDB is not an advanced tool.
- aspaceman 7y ago
  The whole point of this entire discussion was that it's an additional tool where beginners are used to the runtime spitting out a backtrace for them.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Beginners should be using a friendly IDE to start with.
- viraptor 7y ago
  That's a naive view. Depends who's learning. Is C++ their 5th language and they know how to read resulting assembly? Is it their first experience at 10yo and they're struggling with what variables and types are? Anywhere in between? Gdb beyond what the learning person can comfortably handle at the time and that's what matters.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Being able to use a debugger should be an essential part of any curriculum. GDB is only an advanced tool if you're an advanced user; it's useful for the entire spectrum of programming language users.
    - neutronicus 7y ago
      In 2006 when I did this in school it most definitely was not part of the curriculum
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        Note the "should"; most curricula could use a bit of improvement :)
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        It was on my school back in 1990 on a tiny Portuguese town, with Turbo Basic and Turbo Pascal as introductory languages.
- ComputerGuru 7y ago
  You clearly did not learn to develop with an IDE, especially not Visual Studio.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    I'm not sure where you're going with this?
    - ComputerGuru 7y ago
      That everything is relative. That gdb absolutely is advanced and complicated dark magic if you’ve learned to code/debug on and been spoiled by an easy to use IDE.
      - stjohnswarts 7y ago
        I don't think so. Programmers should be taught what is going on under the hood if they're learning system languages like c/c++/rust
jcelerier 7y ago
> As they are specifically talking about new programmers, using gdb in your example effectively communicates and confirms their point New programmers would be using IDEs, press the green arrow "play" button and launch the app with the debugger enabled without them knowing, which would cause the editor to jump directly to where the issue is
- neutronicus 7y ago
  When I was in school there was some server we SSH'd into and compiled shit with GCC, and we were not told what gdb is
  - jcelerier 7y ago
    I'm sorry but there are bad teachers / courses everywhere, that does not reflect on the technology (though C++ has it really bad for some reason). When I was in school learning how to debug was one of the first classes we had. If they were teaching you rust be sure that they wouldn't have told you about cargo either.
  - nineteen999 7y ago
    That is a reflection of your school, and not the language. I'm a self taught C/C++ programmer, learning and becoming comfortable with gdb was one of the first few things I taught myself after learning how to compile code into a binary back in the 1990's.

saagarjha 7y ago

GDB is not an advanced tool.

aspaceman 7y ago
The whole point of this entire discussion was that it's an additional tool where beginners are used to the runtime spitting out a backtrace for them.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Beginners should be using a friendly IDE to start with.
viraptor 7y ago
That's a naive view. Depends who's learning. Is C++ their 5th language and they know how to read resulting assembly? Is it their first experience at 10yo and they're struggling with what variables and types are? Anywhere in between? Gdb beyond what the learning person can comfortably handle at the time and that's what matters.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Being able to use a debugger should be an essential part of any curriculum. GDB is only an advanced tool if you're an advanced user; it's useful for the entire spectrum of programming language users.
  - neutronicus 7y ago
    In 2006 when I did this in school it most definitely was not part of the curriculum
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Note the "should"; most curricula could use a bit of improvement :)
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      It was on my school back in 1990 on a tiny Portuguese town, with Turbo Basic and Turbo Pascal as introductory languages.
ComputerGuru 7y ago
You clearly did not learn to develop with an IDE, especially not Visual Studio.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  I'm not sure where you're going with this?
  - ComputerGuru 7y ago
    That everything is relative. That gdb absolutely is advanced and complicated dark magic if you’ve learned to code/debug on and been spoiled by an easy to use IDE.
    - stjohnswarts 7y ago
      I don't think so. Programmers should be taught what is going on under the hood if they're learning system languages like c/c++/rust

jcelerier 7y ago

> As they are specifically talking about new programmers, using gdb in your example effectively communicates and confirms their point New programmers would be using IDEs, press the green arrow "play" button and launch the app with the debugger enabled without them knowing, which would cause the editor to jump directly to where the issue is

neutronicus 7y ago
When I was in school there was some server we SSH'd into and compiled shit with GCC, and we were not told what gdb is
- jcelerier 7y ago
  I'm sorry but there are bad teachers / courses everywhere, that does not reflect on the technology (though C++ has it really bad for some reason). When I was in school learning how to debug was one of the first classes we had. If they were teaching you rust be sure that they wouldn't have told you about cargo either.
- nineteen999 7y ago
  That is a reflection of your school, and not the language. I'm a self taught C/C++ programmer, learning and becoming comfortable with gdb was one of the first few things I taught myself after learning how to compile code into a binary back in the 1990's.