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So I replied and then deleted my comment. But considering the parent’s reply I’m going to weigh in here. I was actively hostile towards religion. In many ways

So I replied and then deleted my comment. But considering the parent’s reply I’m going to weigh in here. I was actively hostile towards religion. In many ways I still am. I’m still in A.A./N.A. I’m still working the steps. I’ve just got a year clean. Absolutely nowhere in the big book does it say religion is required. In fact, it makes a purposeful effort to try to say the opposite. That is literally the whole point of the “we agnostics” chapter. AA/NA are not about religion. They’re about a spiritual solution to the disease of alcoholism/addiction. Religion is not necessarily the same as spirituality. Religion is not required.

reflectiv 7y ago
Former addict of opiates here, I've attended a lot of AA/NA meetings in the long ago past (8+ years ago). They may not claim to be religious, but every single step mirrors the idea that you are to give up to a 'higher power' and to 'faithfully' follow the steps...etc...etc. It's as religious as it can be while still trying to claim otherwise...in reality its a thin veneer for a truly religious/faith based system. It's got religion all up in its business...the claim to irreligiosity is a fig leaf, in my experience. I also truly hated their angle of making you feel like you are forever a victim/failure to addiction...that is not how you promote a prosperous and good outlook on life. In fact it's a good way to make you feel like shit and use again. What I learned later on is that yes, you can let your past be your past...no I don't want to take opiates...but I also am no longer an 'addict'. I am me, and I don't consume addictive pills anymore. Also, as an anecdote, over 8 years clean here...and that didn't happen till I gave up on AA/NA. Edit: After reading a few more messages, this one in particular was on point and stated things better than I can: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22553896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22553896
- iateanapple 7y ago
  > It's as religious as it can be while still trying to claim otherwise... Exactly - it is taking a program that was religious and removing the more openly religious parts in order to try and help people who aren’t religious. You can smell religion all over it. > that is not how you promote a prosperous and good outlook on life. With a Christian frame of reference it fits and makes sense - and isn’t framing you as a victim. For others it can feel very weird and even possibly harmful and build a victim mentality to think of it that way.
  - reflectiv 7y ago
    I'd argue its harmful when Christians teach you to feel bad for being human. This is much the same.
    - iateanapple 7y ago
      I think that’s fair - and so AA probably doesn’t fit your personality as well as it does others.

reflectiv 7y ago

Former addict of opiates here, I've attended a lot of AA/NA meetings in the long ago past (8+ years ago). They may not claim to be religious, but every single step mirrors the idea that you are to give up to a 'higher power' and to 'faithfully' follow the steps...etc...etc. It's as religious as it can be while still trying to claim otherwise...in reality its a thin veneer for a truly religious/faith based system. It's got religion all up in its business...the claim to irreligiosity is a fig leaf, in my experience. I also truly hated their angle of making you feel like you are forever a victim/failure to addiction...that is not how you promote a prosperous and good outlook on life. In fact it's a good way to make you feel like shit and use again. What I learned later on is that yes, you can let your past be your past...no I don't want to take opiates...but I also am no longer an 'addict'. I am me, and I don't consume addictive pills anymore. Also, as an anecdote, over 8 years clean here...and that didn't happen till I gave up on AA/NA. Edit: After reading a few more messages, this one in particular was on point and stated things better than I can: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22553896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22553896

iateanapple 7y ago
> It's as religious as it can be while still trying to claim otherwise... Exactly - it is taking a program that was religious and removing the more openly religious parts in order to try and help people who aren’t religious. You can smell religion all over it. > that is not how you promote a prosperous and good outlook on life. With a Christian frame of reference it fits and makes sense - and isn’t framing you as a victim. For others it can feel very weird and even possibly harmful and build a victim mentality to think of it that way.
- reflectiv 7y ago
  I'd argue its harmful when Christians teach you to feel bad for being human. This is much the same.
  - iateanapple 7y ago
    I think that’s fair - and so AA probably doesn’t fit your personality as well as it does others.