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Why no comments discussing the root cause has the writer reported it: men who should be receiving non-voluntary mental treatment being forced into the prison sy

Why no comments discussing the root cause has the writer reported it: men who should be receiving non-voluntary mental treatment being forced into the prison system due to non-existence of mental facilities. Historically said mental facilities (mental asylums) were themselves inhuman and barbaric. The out cry against them lead to their closure. Yet if that just drove the prison system to new levels of inhuman and barbarism then that itself a regression. Do other countries have more successful mental services? I know Japan did not close down their asylums during the same era America did. Are those facilities acceptable?

prox 7y ago
Your describing 19th century practices. It’s not as if time has been standing still. These days (europe) mental health services are institutions. Often a group of buildings, ranging from very open assisted living to closed for the truly insane. While there are instances of abuse on rare occasion, it seems to be miles of from the barbarism of the 19th century. So there is a whole spectrum of classification these days so only who are truly harmful get locked up when necessary.
brigandish 7y ago
I live in Japan and I can't tell you about the asylums. What I can tell you is that mental health is a huge stigma, there are plenty of people you'll see in the street or in shops/cafes etc who appear in need of mental help, and there are violent attacks every so often that you probably wouldn't hear about abroad but are again, obviously the work of people who are mentally disturbed. As I say, I don't know anything about the asylums here but the idea that they could be any good seems incredibly unlikely to me, based on my general experience (and what I've heard from other foreigners here). Edit: typo
praptak 7y ago
What lead to their closure in US was Reagan's defunding: https://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_legacy_violence_the_homeless_mental_illness/amp https://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_leg...
- forkexec 7y ago
  It's bigger than Ronny Raygun. The first problem was JFK died before the community-based treatment centers could be funded and realized. Subsequent presidents scaled them back because they didn't understand or couldn't relate to their need. And so, Cook County (encompassing Chicago) jail run one of the largest mental healthcare systems because state, local and federal government has failed to do so. EDIT: forgot the word "jail"
  - praptak 7y ago
    Agreed. There was an article on HN about the demise of psychiatric care in US written from the inside by a psychiatrist. I can't find it though. It was about defunding and kicking the problem between the federal level and the states.
    - forkexec 7y ago
      The ol' finger-pointing, can hacky sack-routine rather than helping the people who can't adequately grasp reality or hold jobs are left to live in tents in the weeds of highway embankments or under bridges. TBH, this seems like something some social-work lawyers should take on to push federally through the courts or with legislation. Worrying about initial sticker-price shouldn't be the focus because of the numerous ancillary costs that are far more expensive than doing the right thing (which is why Cook County jail does what it does).
    - Psyladine 7y ago
      >Agreed. There was an article on HN about the demise of psychiatric care in US written from the inside by a psychiatrist. I can't find it though. thelastpsychiatrist.com has criticism of modern psychiatry as well.

prox 7y ago

Your describing 19th century practices. It’s not as if time has been standing still. These days (europe) mental health services are institutions. Often a group of buildings, ranging from very open assisted living to closed for the truly insane. While there are instances of abuse on rare occasion, it seems to be miles of from the barbarism of the 19th century. So there is a whole spectrum of classification these days so only who are truly harmful get locked up when necessary.

brigandish 7y ago

I live in Japan and I can't tell you about the asylums. What I can tell you is that mental health is a huge stigma, there are plenty of people you'll see in the street or in shops/cafes etc who appear in need of mental help, and there are violent attacks every so often that you probably wouldn't hear about abroad but are again, obviously the work of people who are mentally disturbed. As I say, I don't know anything about the asylums here but the idea that they could be any good seems incredibly unlikely to me, based on my general experience (and what I've heard from other foreigners here). Edit: typo

praptak 7y ago

What lead to their closure in US was Reagan's defunding: https://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_legacy_violence_the_homeless_mental_illness/amp https://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ronald_reagans_shameful_leg...

forkexec 7y ago
It's bigger than Ronny Raygun. The first problem was JFK died before the community-based treatment centers could be funded and realized. Subsequent presidents scaled them back because they didn't understand or couldn't relate to their need. And so, Cook County (encompassing Chicago) jail run one of the largest mental healthcare systems because state, local and federal government has failed to do so. EDIT: forgot the word "jail"
- praptak 7y ago
  Agreed. There was an article on HN about the demise of psychiatric care in US written from the inside by a psychiatrist. I can't find it though. It was about defunding and kicking the problem between the federal level and the states.
  - forkexec 7y ago
    The ol' finger-pointing, can hacky sack-routine rather than helping the people who can't adequately grasp reality or hold jobs are left to live in tents in the weeds of highway embankments or under bridges. TBH, this seems like something some social-work lawyers should take on to push federally through the courts or with legislation. Worrying about initial sticker-price shouldn't be the focus because of the numerous ancillary costs that are far more expensive than doing the right thing (which is why Cook County jail does what it does).
  - Psyladine 7y ago
    >Agreed. There was an article on HN about the demise of psychiatric care in US written from the inside by a psychiatrist. I can't find it though. thelastpsychiatrist.com has criticism of modern psychiatry as well.