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>I know this is probably a controversial opinion to non-meditators, but if you're going to downvote, at least provide an argument for why you don't agree. I'm

>I know this is probably a controversial opinion to non-meditators, but if you're going to downvote, at least provide an argument for why you don't agree. I'm guessing it's the pretense that you can simply teach anyone to meditate whether or not they want to learn. Also, it suggests a system where a form of torture is potentially justified because you shift responsibility to the person being tortured. "They took the class on meditation and signed on the line that they understand how to endure solitary, so their suffering is their own fault!"

trevyn 7y ago
>"_____ so their suffering is their own fault!" Well, that is the core insight, no matter the external circumstance. (Though, of course, it’s not about blame, and more like “here is the door.”) Get deep enough, and yes, being in a shitty version of solitary is the same as being in a positive fantasy of your choosing.
brigandish 7y ago
> I'm guessing it's the pretense that you can simply teach anyone to meditate whether or not they want to learn Meditation techniques aren't hard to learn, they're comparable to any form of exercise. The hard bit is in doing them sincerely, just like any form of exercise. Can you teach someone press-ups? Then you can teach them meditation. You just can't make them do it, or effectively. As to signing up for solitary for an extended period, I wish I could, but only if it was humane (e.g. no violence, feces flung at me etc), which I'm willing to bet (and the article seems to back up my suspicion) prison solitary isn't.
- dgellow 7y ago
  What you're describing is forcing people to meditate. The way I understand what you describe: "We will torture you, you can either have it better by doing this meditation thing _we teach you_ or you can suffer" The issue here is the torture itself, not the fact that the torture is difficult to deal with.
  - brigandish 7y ago
    > What you're describing is forcing people to meditate. In no way have I done that. Addendum: If I describe that a technique is easy to teach or simple to learn, why does that imply forcing someone to do it? What a bizarre inference to take.

trevyn 7y ago

>"_____ so their suffering is their own fault!" Well, that is the core insight, no matter the external circumstance. (Though, of course, it’s not about blame, and more like “here is the door.”) Get deep enough, and yes, being in a shitty version of solitary is the same as being in a positive fantasy of your choosing.

brigandish 7y ago

> I'm guessing it's the pretense that you can simply teach anyone to meditate whether or not they want to learn Meditation techniques aren't hard to learn, they're comparable to any form of exercise. The hard bit is in doing them sincerely, just like any form of exercise. Can you teach someone press-ups? Then you can teach them meditation. You just can't make them do it, or effectively. As to signing up for solitary for an extended period, I wish I could, but only if it was humane (e.g. no violence, feces flung at me etc), which I'm willing to bet (and the article seems to back up my suspicion) prison solitary isn't.

dgellow 7y ago
What you're describing is forcing people to meditate. The way I understand what you describe: "We will torture you, you can either have it better by doing this meditation thing _we teach you_ or you can suffer" The issue here is the torture itself, not the fact that the torture is difficult to deal with.
- brigandish 7y ago
  > What you're describing is forcing people to meditate. In no way have I done that. Addendum: If I describe that a technique is easy to teach or simple to learn, why does that imply forcing someone to do it? What a bizarre inference to take.