5 ms·

That is really besides the point, because this article is about the third world, or should I say medieval prison system in the USA. That system is a crime again

by tda 7y ago

That is really besides the point, because this article is about the third world, or should I say medieval prison system in the USA. That system is a crime against humanity in far too many ways. It is just one of the things many Europeans just don't get why you think it's acceptible. The prison system in the USA is a major cause of crime, not a solution. No civilized country has jailed up anywhere near the percentage of the population as the USA

manigandham 7y ago
How is it a cause of crime?
- tda 7y ago
  Recidivism is very high when people get PTSD, no mental health support or any support whatsoever when they are let free after a decade or two. In civilised countries the prison systems main objective is preparing someone for the life after prison. In other countries revenge is the top priority
- QualityReboot 7y ago
  If you're a felon, you typically can't get traditional employment. For most people, it's a shorter jump to "criminal" than "consultant".
- Proziam 7y ago
  Several factors. 1. If you go to prison, innocent or otherwise, you're not getting hired afterward. This leads to desperation, desperation leads to... 2. In prison, you become socially reliant on criminals to simply get by. This results in cultural transference. Someone getting in trouble for shoplifting learns about the joys of [insert more lucrative criminal activity here]. Combine this with point 1 and you get repeat offenders who become 'hardened' criminals. Basically, they get better at crime, because crime involves skills just like everything else in life. 3. Poor prison conditions result in psychological trauma. This, in turn, leads to anti-social behavior. In short, we pay a lot of money to create better criminals who are highly motivated to commit more crimes.
- jitix 7y ago
  People go in for minor crimes, get mixed up with gangs with hardened criminals and learn the trade. Once outside they have no opportunities so they become a hardened criminal. The system just sucks.
- fletchowns 7y ago
  I've heard prison described as a sort of college for criminals. You learn all sorts of things from other inmates.
sjtindell 7y ago
Agreed. Yet another entrenched, old way of doing things that has been completely debunked using both evidence and common sense among the educated but will require monumental political will to change. How to “disrupt” the American prison system?
dgellow 7y ago
> It is just one of the things many Europeans just don't get why you think it's acceptable. I definitely agree with your comment. But for the sake of the discussion, I would like to point out that Europe also has prison problems, but at a way lower scale: - UK's Belmarsh prison has been criticized extensively and regularly compared to Guantanamo: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3714864.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3714864.stm. As an aside, Julian Assange spent the past 1 year there. - France and Norway prisons have very high suicide rate: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6066090/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6066090/. Though no country is even close with the USA. Citations from the article: "We excluded the USA in one analysis (for incarceration rates) because it was an outlier, with an incarceration rate of more than eight times higher than the majority of other countries." and "Rates of prison suicide compared with rates of incarceration - Data are for men and women combined. USA was not included in this analysis because it is an outlier (appendix p 17)."
- Skgqie1 7y ago
  Neither is good - what exactly are you trying to raise for discussion here though? The fact that there are issues in European prisons doesn't change the situation in US ones. You also also say no other country is close - which is just an indirect way of affirming the parent post (that Europeans find the American system hard to understand). They're hardly going to agree and understand with the American prison system if their own is equally as bad?
  - dgellow 7y ago
    You're creating a dichotomy that doesn't exist. American prisons are terrible. European prisons also have issues. Both are true and are worth being discussed at large.
    - Skgqie1 7y ago
      The discussion was about one of this those systems. Deflecting attention to criticism of other systems during that discussion is not constructive, and comes across as apologetics. You're right, they're not a dichotomy - so why bring them up? Animal rights aren't dichotomous to the problem of the American prison establishment either. They're also irrelevant to the discussion except as a diversionary tactic too

by tda 7y ago

manigandham 7y ago

How is it a cause of crime?

tda 7y ago
Recidivism is very high when people get PTSD, no mental health support or any support whatsoever when they are let free after a decade or two. In civilised countries the prison systems main objective is preparing someone for the life after prison. In other countries revenge is the top priority
QualityReboot 7y ago
If you're a felon, you typically can't get traditional employment. For most people, it's a shorter jump to "criminal" than "consultant".
Proziam 7y ago
Several factors. 1. If you go to prison, innocent or otherwise, you're not getting hired afterward. This leads to desperation, desperation leads to... 2. In prison, you become socially reliant on criminals to simply get by. This results in cultural transference. Someone getting in trouble for shoplifting learns about the joys of [insert more lucrative criminal activity here]. Combine this with point 1 and you get repeat offenders who become 'hardened' criminals. Basically, they get better at crime, because crime involves skills just like everything else in life. 3. Poor prison conditions result in psychological trauma. This, in turn, leads to anti-social behavior. In short, we pay a lot of money to create better criminals who are highly motivated to commit more crimes.
jitix 7y ago
People go in for minor crimes, get mixed up with gangs with hardened criminals and learn the trade. Once outside they have no opportunities so they become a hardened criminal. The system just sucks.
fletchowns 7y ago
I've heard prison described as a sort of college for criminals. You learn all sorts of things from other inmates.

sjtindell 7y ago

Agreed. Yet another entrenched, old way of doing things that has been completely debunked using both evidence and common sense among the educated but will require monumental political will to change. How to “disrupt” the American prison system?

dgellow 7y ago

> It is just one of the things many Europeans just don't get why you think it's acceptable. I definitely agree with your comment. But for the sake of the discussion, I would like to point out that Europe also has prison problems, but at a way lower scale: - UK's Belmarsh prison has been criticized extensively and regularly compared to Guantanamo: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3714864.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3714864.stm. As an aside, Julian Assange spent the past 1 year there. - France and Norway prisons have very high suicide rate: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6066090/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6066090/. Though no country is even close with the USA. Citations from the article: "We excluded the USA in one analysis (for incarceration rates) because it was an outlier, with an incarceration rate of more than eight times higher than the majority of other countries." and "Rates of prison suicide compared with rates of incarceration - Data are for men and women combined. USA was not included in this analysis because it is an outlier (appendix p 17)."

Skgqie1 7y ago
Neither is good - what exactly are you trying to raise for discussion here though? The fact that there are issues in European prisons doesn't change the situation in US ones. You also also say no other country is close - which is just an indirect way of affirming the parent post (that Europeans find the American system hard to understand). They're hardly going to agree and understand with the American prison system if their own is equally as bad?
- dgellow 7y ago
  You're creating a dichotomy that doesn't exist. American prisons are terrible. European prisons also have issues. Both are true and are worth being discussed at large.
  - Skgqie1 7y ago
    The discussion was about one of this those systems. Deflecting attention to criticism of other systems during that discussion is not constructive, and comes across as apologetics. You're right, they're not a dichotomy - so why bring them up? Animal rights aren't dichotomous to the problem of the American prison establishment either. They're also irrelevant to the discussion except as a diversionary tactic too