4 ms·

We definitely need to fix a lot in this country, but then the only people that have ideas on how to fix things also want to tax options at vest or do any number

We definitely need to fix a lot in this country, but then the only people that have ideas on how to fix things also want to tax options at vest or do any number of other insane things that will completely out weigh the good changes.

mvid 7y ago
People having healthcare isn’t worth taxing options at vest?
- donavanm 7y ago
  Who gets options? The vast majority of public (tech) firm comp like this is done via RSUs for the last 20 years. Which, SURPRISE, is literally taxed as income at vesting at the vested value. It even shows up on the same W2 as regular paychecks. So 1) isn’t this how it works already 2) why are RSU/options the equity you want to tax anyways?
Pfhreak 7y ago
We're talking about basic food, shelter, and medical care. You don't think that maybe you could accept a small tax on your stock?
- ethanwillis 7y ago
  They don't have to go hand in hand? Sticking someone with a massive tax bill for unrealized gains doesn't do anything to help the former. If you haven't realized gains in a practical sense there's no money to pay the "small tax" with.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    It's definitely not the first tax I'd choose to pay for all this. But it's the one the parent comment mentioned. I'd much rather see wealth taxes or raising income taxes, etc.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  Don't you already have basic shelter and medical care though? Shelters exist and doctors can't turn you away when you're in an urgent need for medical care. I think what's needed is beyond basic.
  - mpfundstein 7y ago
    Ever been to LA? Skid row?
    - albroland 7y ago
      That's not a great example. There are incredible resources available in LA for medical care and housing support. The people on skid row are electing to not use them, and they cannot be compelled to use them. It's a mental health/drug issue. You can see a similar dynamic in NYC, where the city cannot turn you away from a shelter, and they've been spending hundreds of millions to put up homeless people in hotels for years. Yet still, there are thousands on the street. Not for a lack of option, but because they've specifically refused these services and outreach, and you cannot force them.
      - AstralStorm 7y ago
        That's not a mental health issue at all. If you ever visited a homeless shelter, you'd know they're only slightly better than prisons (sometimes even worse, as theft is common) and are definitely not good for transient homeless at all, while the ones with serious issues get kicked out. Shelter is not enough of help and rather terrible at fixing reasons for homelessness. In fact some of the rules in these seem designed to prevent job and house searching. If anything, the programs would have to be extended to allow most anyone to crash and not strip people of hope.
        albroland 7y ago
        To be clear, we're talking about the people on skid row and in similar situations. I've volunteered extensively with BRC in NYC, I'm very familiar with the conditions of shelters in the US as well as the laws governing them. I'm very curious what rules you think are designed to prevent job searches: curfew? alcohol prohibition? no visitors? The ones who are refusing these services, the ones out in the streets, below the highways, sleeping on subway cars are almost all suffering from substantial mental health or addiction issues, and both the number of psychiatric beds and the ability to compel the sick into them has disappeared over time leaving them on the street. LA homeless outreach is quite extensive - not quite at the NYC level with right to shelter laws that are causing the enormous spillover into commercial hotels - but to compare the people on skid row to lower wage service workers who might find themselves unable to pay rent for two months is wildly disingenuous.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  Make no mistake, we're all going to be missing out on medical care in the months to come. Some countries are already not able to get their regular non-covid related medications because China and India supply chain problems. In Italy if you go to the hospital and you're over 65 they just put you in a corner to die without any medical care whatsoever because there isn't enough to go around. Traumas are being turned around at the door. Got in a car accident and have a broken leg? Your healthcare is you get to limp now. According to WHO Italy has the second best healthcare system in the world, second only to France. It doesn't matter who is picking up the bill, it does not solve the pending problems.

mvid 7y ago

People having healthcare isn’t worth taxing options at vest?

donavanm 7y ago
Who gets options? The vast majority of public (tech) firm comp like this is done via RSUs for the last 20 years. Which, SURPRISE, is literally taxed as income at vesting at the vested value. It even shows up on the same W2 as regular paychecks. So 1) isn’t this how it works already 2) why are RSU/options the equity you want to tax anyways?

Pfhreak 7y ago

We're talking about basic food, shelter, and medical care. You don't think that maybe you could accept a small tax on your stock?

ethanwillis 7y ago
They don't have to go hand in hand? Sticking someone with a massive tax bill for unrealized gains doesn't do anything to help the former. If you haven't realized gains in a practical sense there's no money to pay the "small tax" with.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  It's definitely not the first tax I'd choose to pay for all this. But it's the one the parent comment mentioned. I'd much rather see wealth taxes or raising income taxes, etc.
Mirioron 7y ago
Don't you already have basic shelter and medical care though? Shelters exist and doctors can't turn you away when you're in an urgent need for medical care. I think what's needed is beyond basic.
- mpfundstein 7y ago
  Ever been to LA? Skid row?
  - albroland 7y ago
    That's not a great example. There are incredible resources available in LA for medical care and housing support. The people on skid row are electing to not use them, and they cannot be compelled to use them. It's a mental health/drug issue. You can see a similar dynamic in NYC, where the city cannot turn you away from a shelter, and they've been spending hundreds of millions to put up homeless people in hotels for years. Yet still, there are thousands on the street. Not for a lack of option, but because they've specifically refused these services and outreach, and you cannot force them.
    - AstralStorm 7y ago
      That's not a mental health issue at all. If you ever visited a homeless shelter, you'd know they're only slightly better than prisons (sometimes even worse, as theft is common) and are definitely not good for transient homeless at all, while the ones with serious issues get kicked out. Shelter is not enough of help and rather terrible at fixing reasons for homelessness. In fact some of the rules in these seem designed to prevent job and house searching. If anything, the programs would have to be extended to allow most anyone to crash and not strip people of hope.
      - albroland 7y ago
        To be clear, we're talking about the people on skid row and in similar situations. I've volunteered extensively with BRC in NYC, I'm very familiar with the conditions of shelters in the US as well as the laws governing them. I'm very curious what rules you think are designed to prevent job searches: curfew? alcohol prohibition? no visitors? The ones who are refusing these services, the ones out in the streets, below the highways, sleeping on subway cars are almost all suffering from substantial mental health or addiction issues, and both the number of psychiatric beds and the ability to compel the sick into them has disappeared over time leaving them on the street. LA homeless outreach is quite extensive - not quite at the NYC level with right to shelter laws that are causing the enormous spillover into commercial hotels - but to compare the people on skid row to lower wage service workers who might find themselves unable to pay rent for two months is wildly disingenuous.
Consultant32452 7y ago
Make no mistake, we're all going to be missing out on medical care in the months to come. Some countries are already not able to get their regular non-covid related medications because China and India supply chain problems. In Italy if you go to the hospital and you're over 65 they just put you in a corner to die without any medical care whatsoever because there isn't enough to go around. Traumas are being turned around at the door. Got in a car accident and have a broken leg? Your healthcare is you get to limp now. According to WHO Italy has the second best healthcare system in the world, second only to France. It doesn't matter who is picking up the bill, it does not solve the pending problems.