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On the other hand, Americans have much larger and more comfortable homes than Europeans. Americans have big garages to stockpile supplies, which means less trip

On the other hand, Americans have much larger and more comfortable homes than Europeans. Americans have big garages to stockpile supplies, which means less trips to the store. Very few people use public transportation regularly. Most people have private back yards. Many more meals are take-out or drive-thru. More Americans use e-commerce for shopping than Europeans. In Europe by contrast, much more of life revolves around public spaces, like the park, cafes, the city square, and public transport. Americans tend to spend little time in restaurants, whereas Europeans relax and enjoy the meal, thus increasing their exposure time. Think of the areas in the US that seen the worst outbreaks. Seattle, the Bay Area, New York, Boston. These are the metros, where the average resident is least likely to live a typical middle-American lifestyle. San Francisco in many ways is closer to Copenhagen than it is to Jacksonville. Overall, social distancing is probably easier for Americans because our way of life already involves a good deal of social distance to begin with.

Sebguer 7y ago
I mean there was literally a guy on the post from yesterday talking about how we're all paranoid and he's going to enjoy "exploring Boston and eating out while the lines are short".
- sithlord 7y ago
  Thats probably the attitude that spreads it, yes. But that doesn't change a massivie amount of Americans don't live in these hotspots.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Yeah some people are going to take advantage of cheap flights and small crowds. The thinner crowds is the point though. it still achieves the objective of lowering the R value.
  - ShorsHammer 7y ago
    I bought an annual unlimited longhaul flight pass on AirAsia for ~$150 USD, still have to pay taxes and airport charges. One return flight home and it pays for itself. Will see how that turns out, but is very much bargain hunting time for the brave. Also traffic is great now. One good thing to come out of this is that governments might see the huge infrastructure benefits from just a small increase in remote workers. https://newsroom.airasia.com/news/2020/2/29/eng-aaunlimitedpass https://newsroom.airasia.com/news/2020/2/29/eng-aaunlimitedp...
negrit 7y ago
> Americans have big garages to stockpile supplies No they don't. No one in NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, ... have big garages to stockpile supplies and most of the US lives in those big cities with apartments without garages. In the suburbs they do but that's a minority of the population.
- misiti3780 7y ago
  That is correct, but most people dont live in cities here. As of 2010, the top 10 cities had 24MM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_cities_in_the_United_States_by_decade#2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_cities_i... People in the suburbs do have big garages (think long island vs manhattan)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - dx034 7y ago
    How does a garage help? Many people living in urban areas in Europe have a basement. And even those who don't shouldn't have issues storing 2 weeks worth of food in their houses or apartments. Fridge space is probably the only restriction for that.
- rojondo 7y ago
  Majority of US population lives in the suburbs. Roughly 30% live in urban areas and many of them would have garages or basements. For example, my town is considered urban and all the houses have garages. https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/11/data-most-american-neighborhoods-suburban/575602/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/11/data-most-american-neig... https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/ https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-e...
- majormajor 7y ago
  There are more Americans in suburbs and rural area than in "small apartment urban" areas. https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/ https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-e... > About 46 million Americans live in the nation’s rural counties, 175 million in its suburbs and small metros and about 98 million in its urban core counties. > As a group, the population in rural counties grew 3% since 2000, less than their 8% growth in the 1990s. Urban county population rose 13% since 2000 and the population in suburban and small metro counties went up 16%, growth rates somewhat higher than in the 1990s. It's hidden in plain sight: you mention "Boston, San Fransisco, and Seattle" in the same breath as NYC, but numbers-wise those are all pretty small and you're leaving out not only their suburbs but also the LA, Chicago, DFW and Houston areas which all have considerable amounts of suburbs and single family living, and hold almost 40M people alone...
guerrilla 7y ago
It sounds like you've never been outside of a city in Europe and never been to a city in the US? Urban population in the EU in 2018 is 76% while 82% for the same year in the US according to The World Bank.
- pedrosorio 7y ago
  > and never been to a city in the US? Have you? Most of the US urban population in the US fits the points of the OP: - Very few people use public transportation regularly (they use cars, in the cities, yes) - Most people have private back yards (the infamous "American suburbs", where 50% of Americans live, count towards the urban population you mention) - Many more meals are take-out or drive-thru - More Americans use e-commerce for shopping than Europeans
  - guerrilla 7y ago
    In some places this is relevant, in other places such as Scandinavia and Germany, other than public transportation it is not.
    - Jommi 7y ago
      Are you saying people have big backyards, eat loads of tskeour and order stuff online, in Scandinavia? Have you ever lived in Scandinavia?
      - guerrilla 7y ago
        Lived in Sweden for the last 15 years. Yeah, people out of cities have big back yards (people in cities have none), most workers eat out every day for lunch, shopping online (except for food) is pretty much the default. Denmark's pretty much the same. Poke around https://www.hemnet.se/topplistor https://www.hemnet.se/topplistor
        Jommi 7y ago
        I've lived in both, and you're missing how large the difference is. Not to mention you seem to be missing the point. What the OP was saying is that americans don't eat out that much, is a very heavily home-oriented society - thats why the OP mentioned take out and delivery - not going out for lunch. And yes people out of cities in nearly all countries have big backyards, but you are missing the people have big back yards in the US EVEN inside city limits. There are ofcourse the couple exceptions like NYC etc. but mostly even big cities have the weird suburban style houses even in the most expensive areas!
gip 7y ago
> Overall, social distancing is probably easier for Americans because our way of life already involves a good deal of social distance to begin with. While that's true, behavior trumps lifestyle I think. I had a dentist appointment scheduled for this morning in San Francisco. I called my dentist office and explained that my wife has some mild-flu symptoms and asked if we should reschedule. They said that's since I don't have symptoms myself it's not necessary to postpone the appointment. That may happen in Jacksonville too.
- hrasyid 7y ago
  You think that should be cancelled?
  - squiggleblaz 7y ago
    omg yes! The dentist's going to stick their face right in his! after having stuck their face right into a bunch of other patients! and then they'll stick their face into a few more patients! It sounds like the perfect breeding ground. Even if I wasn't sick, I'd want to cancel for that alone!
    - hrasyid 7y ago
      Yeah but they use protections like masks, gloves. I think it's reasonable to assume that a dentist's office likely know better than you about how to minimize the risk. They have motivation in not ruining their business by being a source of local outbreak.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
martinpw 7y ago
> More Americans use e-commerce for shopping than Europeans. Do you have a source for that? I couldn't find a great single source but this says 9% of retail sales were ecommerce in Europe in 2018: https://ecommercenews.eu/ecommerce-in-europe/ https://ecommercenews.eu/ecommerce-in-europe/ and this says 8% in the US in 2018: https://www.invespcro.com/blog/global-online-retail-spending-statistics-and-trends/ https://www.invespcro.com/blog/global-online-retail-spending... If you treat North and South Europe separately, it looks like Northern Europe has most ecommerce, then the US, then Southern Europe.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
Polylactic_acid 7y ago
Americans all gather together in the same room 5 days a week to work. They also have less protections for paid sick days so you will have min wage mcdonalds workers coming in sick and coughing on your burgers.
Izkata 7y ago
> Very few people use public transportation regularly. Stopping the CTA would virtually shut down Chicago.
Dahoon 7y ago
>Americans have big garages to stockpile supplies, which means less trips to the store This is FUD. That isn't where you risk getting sick. The countries with the most effective response to COVIR-19 doesn't even try to stop everyday shopping or movement in cars at all. >In Europe by contrast, much more of life revolves around public spaces, like the park, cafes, the city square, and public transport. You don't get sick by being in a park or city square with someone else. More FUD. Please do some reading on the appropriate measures and what actually constitutes a risk of infection.
- Tepix 7y ago
  From what I've read, China tries to get people to go grocery shopping only once per week. They are the only ones who appear to manage to get the infection rate from 1.3x down to 0.3x in the past days.
  - Izkata 7y ago
    Interesting. Once a week was status quo in the suburb I grew up in (west of Chicago), is that not normal elsewhere?
    - Tepix 7y ago
      We buy milk and bread almost daily.
asjw 7y ago
On the other hand here in Italy - we have a better healthcare system than is US (better as in public and for everyone) - we own the most cars per capita in the west and are second in the world, public transport wasn't a big factor in this pandemia here - food is much more controlled and we have a tradition of home made, home grown food, that doesn't require to go to the supermarket - things are closer so trips are shorter and you can shop at many non packed smaller shops - we react better to panic and are not armed - infection has spread in small cities in the country where houses are larger, they have more storage, don't use public transport and social distancing in theory was easier All in all, there are many ways to look at this
madeofpalk 7y ago
> Many more meals are take-out or drive-thru Wait until all the coronavirus infected hourly workers, who can't get treated because of a lack of healthcare and who have to continue going to work so they can pay rent, infect everyone through the take-out food :)

Sebguer 7y ago

I mean there was literally a guy on the post from yesterday talking about how we're all paranoid and he's going to enjoy "exploring Boston and eating out while the lines are short".

sithlord 7y ago
Thats probably the attitude that spreads it, yes. But that doesn't change a massivie amount of Americans don't live in these hotspots.
chrisco255 7y ago
Yeah some people are going to take advantage of cheap flights and small crowds. The thinner crowds is the point though. it still achieves the objective of lowering the R value.
- ShorsHammer 7y ago
  I bought an annual unlimited longhaul flight pass on AirAsia for ~$150 USD, still have to pay taxes and airport charges. One return flight home and it pays for itself. Will see how that turns out, but is very much bargain hunting time for the brave. Also traffic is great now. One good thing to come out of this is that governments might see the huge infrastructure benefits from just a small increase in remote workers. https://newsroom.airasia.com/news/2020/2/29/eng-aaunlimitedpass https://newsroom.airasia.com/news/2020/2/29/eng-aaunlimitedp...

negrit 7y ago

> Americans have big garages to stockpile supplies No they don't. No one in NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, ... have big garages to stockpile supplies and most of the US lives in those big cities with apartments without garages. In the suburbs they do but that's a minority of the population.

misiti3780 7y ago
That is correct, but most people dont live in cities here. As of 2010, the top 10 cities had 24MM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_cities_in_the_United_States_by_decade#2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_cities_i... People in the suburbs do have big garages (think long island vs manhattan)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dx034 7y ago
  How does a garage help? Many people living in urban areas in Europe have a basement. And even those who don't shouldn't have issues storing 2 weeks worth of food in their houses or apartments. Fridge space is probably the only restriction for that.
rojondo 7y ago
Majority of US population lives in the suburbs. Roughly 30% live in urban areas and many of them would have garages or basements. For example, my town is considered urban and all the houses have garages. https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/11/data-most-american-neighborhoods-suburban/575602/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/11/data-most-american-neig... https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/ https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-e...
majormajor 7y ago
There are more Americans in suburbs and rural area than in "small apartment urban" areas. https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/ https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-e... > About 46 million Americans live in the nation’s rural counties, 175 million in its suburbs and small metros and about 98 million in its urban core counties. > As a group, the population in rural counties grew 3% since 2000, less than their 8% growth in the 1990s. Urban county population rose 13% since 2000 and the population in suburban and small metro counties went up 16%, growth rates somewhat higher than in the 1990s. It's hidden in plain sight: you mention "Boston, San Fransisco, and Seattle" in the same breath as NYC, but numbers-wise those are all pretty small and you're leaving out not only their suburbs but also the LA, Chicago, DFW and Houston areas which all have considerable amounts of suburbs and single family living, and hold almost 40M people alone...

guerrilla 7y ago

It sounds like you've never been outside of a city in Europe and never been to a city in the US? Urban population in the EU in 2018 is 76% while 82% for the same year in the US according to The World Bank.

pedrosorio 7y ago
> and never been to a city in the US? Have you? Most of the US urban population in the US fits the points of the OP: - Very few people use public transportation regularly (they use cars, in the cities, yes) - Most people have private back yards (the infamous "American suburbs", where 50% of Americans live, count towards the urban population you mention) - Many more meals are take-out or drive-thru - More Americans use e-commerce for shopping than Europeans
- guerrilla 7y ago
  In some places this is relevant, in other places such as Scandinavia and Germany, other than public transportation it is not.
  - Jommi 7y ago
    Are you saying people have big backyards, eat loads of tskeour and order stuff online, in Scandinavia? Have you ever lived in Scandinavia?
    - guerrilla 7y ago
      Lived in Sweden for the last 15 years. Yeah, people out of cities have big back yards (people in cities have none), most workers eat out every day for lunch, shopping online (except for food) is pretty much the default. Denmark's pretty much the same. Poke around https://www.hemnet.se/topplistor https://www.hemnet.se/topplistor
      - Jommi 7y ago
        I've lived in both, and you're missing how large the difference is. Not to mention you seem to be missing the point. What the OP was saying is that americans don't eat out that much, is a very heavily home-oriented society - thats why the OP mentioned take out and delivery - not going out for lunch. And yes people out of cities in nearly all countries have big backyards, but you are missing the people have big back yards in the US EVEN inside city limits. There are ofcourse the couple exceptions like NYC etc. but mostly even big cities have the weird suburban style houses even in the most expensive areas!

gip 7y ago

> Overall, social distancing is probably easier for Americans because our way of life already involves a good deal of social distance to begin with. While that's true, behavior trumps lifestyle I think. I had a dentist appointment scheduled for this morning in San Francisco. I called my dentist office and explained that my wife has some mild-flu symptoms and asked if we should reschedule. They said that's since I don't have symptoms myself it's not necessary to postpone the appointment. That may happen in Jacksonville too.

hrasyid 7y ago
You think that should be cancelled?
- squiggleblaz 7y ago
  omg yes! The dentist's going to stick their face right in his! after having stuck their face right into a bunch of other patients! and then they'll stick their face into a few more patients! It sounds like the perfect breeding ground. Even if I wasn't sick, I'd want to cancel for that alone!
  - hrasyid 7y ago
    Yeah but they use protections like masks, gloves. I think it's reasonable to assume that a dentist's office likely know better than you about how to minimize the risk. They have motivation in not ruining their business by being a source of local outbreak.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

martinpw 7y ago

> More Americans use e-commerce for shopping than Europeans. Do you have a source for that? I couldn't find a great single source but this says 9% of retail sales were ecommerce in Europe in 2018: https://ecommercenews.eu/ecommerce-in-europe/ https://ecommercenews.eu/ecommerce-in-europe/ and this says 8% in the US in 2018: https://www.invespcro.com/blog/global-online-retail-spending-statistics-and-trends/ https://www.invespcro.com/blog/global-online-retail-spending... If you treat North and South Europe separately, it looks like Northern Europe has most ecommerce, then the US, then Southern Europe.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Polylactic_acid 7y ago

Americans all gather together in the same room 5 days a week to work. They also have less protections for paid sick days so you will have min wage mcdonalds workers coming in sick and coughing on your burgers.

Izkata 7y ago

> Very few people use public transportation regularly. Stopping the CTA would virtually shut down Chicago.

Dahoon 7y ago

>Americans have big garages to stockpile supplies, which means less trips to the store This is FUD. That isn't where you risk getting sick. The countries with the most effective response to COVIR-19 doesn't even try to stop everyday shopping or movement in cars at all. >In Europe by contrast, much more of life revolves around public spaces, like the park, cafes, the city square, and public transport. You don't get sick by being in a park or city square with someone else. More FUD. Please do some reading on the appropriate measures and what actually constitutes a risk of infection.

Tepix 7y ago
From what I've read, China tries to get people to go grocery shopping only once per week. They are the only ones who appear to manage to get the infection rate from 1.3x down to 0.3x in the past days.
- Izkata 7y ago
  Interesting. Once a week was status quo in the suburb I grew up in (west of Chicago), is that not normal elsewhere?
  - Tepix 7y ago
    We buy milk and bread almost daily.

asjw 7y ago

On the other hand here in Italy - we have a better healthcare system than is US (better as in public and for everyone) - we own the most cars per capita in the west and are second in the world, public transport wasn't a big factor in this pandemia here - food is much more controlled and we have a tradition of home made, home grown food, that doesn't require to go to the supermarket - things are closer so trips are shorter and you can shop at many non packed smaller shops - we react better to panic and are not armed - infection has spread in small cities in the country where houses are larger, they have more storage, don't use public transport and social distancing in theory was easier All in all, there are many ways to look at this

madeofpalk 7y ago

> Many more meals are take-out or drive-thru Wait until all the coronavirus infected hourly workers, who can't get treated because of a lack of healthcare and who have to continue going to work so they can pay rent, infect everyone through the take-out food :)