4 ms·

wow. Five years ago? the thunder on the horizon was all the way back in 2002 when Japanese automotive manufacturers began ripping apart the luxury market with

wow. Five years ago? the thunder on the horizon was all the way back in 2002 when Japanese automotive manufacturers began ripping apart the luxury market with Lexus/etc... Lee Iacocca tried to help and really did in a lot of ways, by consolidating Chryslers various drivetrain and option specifications into tighter platforms...i believe at the time his strategy was likened to Taco Bell's toppings. Its exactly what Japanese automakers pioneered for their dive into Luxury. Take an existing platform and powertrain, and "goose" it with a few luxury features. Then, break the bank on marketing (which is all luxury brands really are anyway these days.) switches and buttons for seat options came prewired into the base models, but were built out in the luxury models, so this saved a lot of time and money. regular shocks, coilovers, struts, etc...were swapped for primo, and the seat design was slapped up with leather instead of cloth. you can do this and it does work. Fast forward to 2015 and the auto industry learned bupkis from their crow dinner at congress begging for handouts in 2008. Chrysler basically blocked the memory out entirely, dove hard off the deep end and came out with garbage like the hellcat. Its not even in the top 20 fastest cars, and most importantly its a loss leader with custom engine work, custom drivetrain, custom paint, etc...that is shared by no model. people want reliable cars with good gas mileage and good performance like the Ford Focus and its ST counterpart which were well executed. Ford of course then immediately turned around and wiped out their car divisions entirely under the assumption all americans will drive SUV's and trucks forever. maybe so, but the electric mustang crossover is dead on arrival at sixty grand if its still getting its doors blown off by a used model S with a 'baby on board' sticker. Bureaucrats didnt help this capital addiction either. You could argue this 'ignore the real problems' stuff started in 2008 when boomers in congress shook their fists and demanded Pontiac die, and Buick get to live, when Pontiac was clearly a stronger company with a better offering for customers than Buick who at the time was living off fumes from the Lucerne and Lacross, two virtually indistinguishable cars which were getting creamed by Cadillacs CTS and V platforms that targeted a younger and hipper trend. Pontiac basically prayed at the altar of Iacocca with the G6, the G8, and the Solstice, and their willingness to damn the consequences and innovate was already on display with the Aztek...whereas Buick was still hucking 80's designs around their Lucerne. Look at a 2008 Honda dashboard, then look at a 2008 lucerne dashboard. Buick is alive solely thanks to geriatric politicians.

quicklyfrozen 7y ago
Buick is alive because it sold well in China (and still does).
MegaButts 7y ago
> Then, break the bank on marketing (which is all luxury brands really are anyway these days.) Maybe to the layperson, but enthusiasts can easily spot the differences between a VW and an Audi and are happy to pay (or not) for it. And no, just because VW and Audi share the MQB platform does not mean they are the same cars. The most notable difference being how VW purposefully gimped their infotainment system so as not to cannibalize Audi sales. There are other obvious differences in terms of build quality and choice of materials (and sometimes they just throw in a new engine, like the RS variants). I would love to have a 5 cylinder engine, and no affordable car is offering that. > the hellcat. Its not even in the top 20 fastest cars, and most importantly its a loss leader with custom engine work, custom drivetrain, custom paint, etc...that is shared by no model. It's a drag car, and it's very good at what it was built for. I would never buy a drag car, but I know people that do. If you want a RWD drag car, the Hellcat Redeye is a favorite amongst enthusiasts, and many pay the high asking price for it. The part you're missing is these people buy the car for the engine, so it has to have a custom engine. Naturally aspirated engines are just more fun because they don't have turbo lag and they make an amazing sound that can't be replicated by a 4-banger. Porsche got ridiculed for making a more fuel efficient Cayman using a 4 cylinder engine, and had to go back to offering a larger naturally aspirated version that really doesn't make the car much faster (it doesn't even make more torque) but it does make it more enjoyable. People are paying tens of thousands of dollars more just for the larger engine. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/porsche/718-cayman/2020/2020-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-first-drive-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/cars/porsche/718-cayman/2020/2020... > people want reliable cars with good gas mileage and good performance like the Ford Focus and its ST counterpart which were well executed. Most people do, but enthusiasts don't. You really can't talk about the two groups as though they're the same, because they almost never want the same things. Once you stop building cars for enthusiasts you end up in Nissan's position (although merging with Renault is definitely the main culprit of their downfall). https://youtu.be/q3_2R5bmFbk https://youtu.be/q3_2R5bmFbk > Fast forward to 2015 and the auto industry learned bupkis from their crow dinner at congress begging for handouts in 2008. Now that's something we can agree on.

quicklyfrozen 7y ago

Buick is alive because it sold well in China (and still does).

MegaButts 7y ago

> Then, break the bank on marketing (which is all luxury brands really are anyway these days.) Maybe to the layperson, but enthusiasts can easily spot the differences between a VW and an Audi and are happy to pay (or not) for it. And no, just because VW and Audi share the MQB platform does not mean they are the same cars. The most notable difference being how VW purposefully gimped their infotainment system so as not to cannibalize Audi sales. There are other obvious differences in terms of build quality and choice of materials (and sometimes they just throw in a new engine, like the RS variants). I would love to have a 5 cylinder engine, and no affordable car is offering that. > the hellcat. Its not even in the top 20 fastest cars, and most importantly its a loss leader with custom engine work, custom drivetrain, custom paint, etc...that is shared by no model. It's a drag car, and it's very good at what it was built for. I would never buy a drag car, but I know people that do. If you want a RWD drag car, the Hellcat Redeye is a favorite amongst enthusiasts, and many pay the high asking price for it. The part you're missing is these people buy the car for the engine, so it has to have a custom engine. Naturally aspirated engines are just more fun because they don't have turbo lag and they make an amazing sound that can't be replicated by a 4-banger. Porsche got ridiculed for making a more fuel efficient Cayman using a 4 cylinder engine, and had to go back to offering a larger naturally aspirated version that really doesn't make the car much faster (it doesn't even make more torque) but it does make it more enjoyable. People are paying tens of thousands of dollars more just for the larger engine. https://www.motortrend.com/cars/porsche/718-cayman/2020/2020-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-first-drive-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/cars/porsche/718-cayman/2020/2020... > people want reliable cars with good gas mileage and good performance like the Ford Focus and its ST counterpart which were well executed. Most people do, but enthusiasts don't. You really can't talk about the two groups as though they're the same, because they almost never want the same things. Once you stop building cars for enthusiasts you end up in Nissan's position (although merging with Renault is definitely the main culprit of their downfall). https://youtu.be/q3_2R5bmFbk https://youtu.be/q3_2R5bmFbk > Fast forward to 2015 and the auto industry learned bupkis from their crow dinner at congress begging for handouts in 2008. Now that's something we can agree on.