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I didn’t do AA but did AlAnon for children of alcoholics recovering from trauma. Despite what people think, the 12 step program is super light on the spirituali

I didn’t do AA but did AlAnon for children of alcoholics recovering from trauma. Despite what people think, the 12 step program is super light on the spirituality stuff and very atheist friendly. As a recovery group AlAnon was super useful for getting some closure on the hell my parents dragged me through and just leaving that stuff behind. Edit:I guess I should have qualified that I’ve only done support groups in SF that have been great and usually hosted by churches.

Waterluvian 7y ago
My understanding is that they don't even need you to acknowledge a God, just that "there is cosmically something bigger than you and you have no power to govern it" Is that about what you experienced?
- gameswithgo 7y ago
  even that is just silly. it is true only when the idea devolves into that kind of tautology. I would obviously let it slide if I needed this kind of thing, but it is clearly cruft.
  - Waterluvian 7y ago
    I won't pretend I understand how it works but I think it has to do with accepting that you aren't in control of things, especially your addiction.
  - sbilstein 7y ago
    I suppose but as an existentialist/atheist there are dice rolls that govern my entire life and most are not under my control. Using that belief as a tool to cleave apart guilt, shame, and blame is handy. The same “dice roller” in the sky that brought me trauma also brought me a high affinity with math and science, some pathway to a great tech career so acknowledging a higher power is really about saying “shits gonna happen, good and bad”
  - dang 7y ago
    Please let's not dip a toe into religious flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- athrowaway69 7y ago
  In my experience, some meetings don't care much about that. Others have told me if I'm not into the whole Christian God thing that I'm not welcome.
- tyingq 7y ago
  The experience varies from group to group, and even between different meeting times at the same group. They all have their own interpretations and subcultures.
- NAaddict167 7y ago
  > A power greater than ourselves No cosmically, nothing about governance. Should be loving and tolerant. At least that’s my experience so far working the steps.
- developer2 7y ago
  While that is touted as being the case, many groups make use of the Serenity Prayer[1]. Most of the time, it directly invokes the use of "God" or "Father" which can turn off non-believers. Some groups use a variation that omits direct reference to a religious entity, while a few groups are committed to avoiding the prayer altogether. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer#Use_by_twelve-step_recovery_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer#Use_by_twelve-...
Kuraj 7y ago
I'm sorry you had to go through that. Thank you for telling me about Al-Anon - I will look into it myself.
athrowaway69 7y ago
> the 12 step program is super light on the spirituality stuff and very atheist friendly This is highly dependent on where you are. I experienced verbal abuse and was made to feel unwelcome at meetings when people found out I'm an atheist. People have told me, verbatim, "You don't belong here if you're denying God". Needless to say, I am no longer a part of that little cult. I'm doing fine without it.
- Klonoar 7y ago
  You know, I've gone to these meetings with a number of people (my mother, who unfortunately lost her battles with it, and other family members/friends). I'll note that I've done this worldwide, to some degree - Japan, USA (east and west coast). I'm saying this to point out that I'm in there as an observer for these people attempting recovery, so this experience is cultivated from multiple viewpoints/locales/etc. I have witnessed _exactly_ what you're saying, and I've seen people feel so unwelcome that it hurts them more than helps them. It blows my mind the stranglehold that AA has on this industry, given how demeaning it can be to people who are looking for help. I've seen more success with people going to SMART recovery meetings, which focus on providing a space to talk and seek help without the judgement level associated with AA.
  - p7hwfizeONj 7y ago
    I reached a point where I realized I needed help to quit drinking. I looked into AA and a coworker whom I knew had gone through the program gave me a little red book. It felt very dogmatic and turned me off to the program. I never attended a meeting. Instead I read a different book that could be summarized as "There are lots of good reasons to stop drinking and lets go over them." I also used r/stopdrinking as a support group for daily check-ins. I can't say whether Alcoholics Anonymous would have helped me had I gone to the meetings but the literature was really unattractive. My understanding of SMART is they don't let you refer to yourself as an "alcoholic" or "addict". I feel that framing was much better for me than what I read in the Alcoholics Anonymous pamphlet.
    - deleted 7y ago
kilroy123 7y ago
I, too, went to AlAnon meetings when I was a teen. I honestly don't think I would be where I'm at today without going when I was younger.
- abyssin 7y ago
  Can you share about how it helped you?
  - GiuseppaAcciaio 7y ago
    Not the person you were replying to, however for me it mainly helped me understand that my loved ones' drinking was not something I could control, and it allowed me to let go of the anger and resentment (easier said than done).
GiuseppaAcciaio 7y ago
Same here, been to Al-Anon meetings in London UK, all hosted in church basements and with zero religious nonsense being spouted... just the Serenity Prayer and tbh that one is just plain good advice so I did not mind :) I have nothing but praise for the 12-step system as I experienced it

Waterluvian 7y ago

My understanding is that they don't even need you to acknowledge a God, just that "there is cosmically something bigger than you and you have no power to govern it" Is that about what you experienced?

gameswithgo 7y ago
even that is just silly. it is true only when the idea devolves into that kind of tautology. I would obviously let it slide if I needed this kind of thing, but it is clearly cruft.
- Waterluvian 7y ago
  I won't pretend I understand how it works but I think it has to do with accepting that you aren't in control of things, especially your addiction.
- sbilstein 7y ago
  I suppose but as an existentialist/atheist there are dice rolls that govern my entire life and most are not under my control. Using that belief as a tool to cleave apart guilt, shame, and blame is handy. The same “dice roller” in the sky that brought me trauma also brought me a high affinity with math and science, some pathway to a great tech career so acknowledging a higher power is really about saying “shits gonna happen, good and bad”
- dang 7y ago
  Please let's not dip a toe into religious flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
athrowaway69 7y ago
In my experience, some meetings don't care much about that. Others have told me if I'm not into the whole Christian God thing that I'm not welcome.
tyingq 7y ago
The experience varies from group to group, and even between different meeting times at the same group. They all have their own interpretations and subcultures.
NAaddict167 7y ago
> A power greater than ourselves No cosmically, nothing about governance. Should be loving and tolerant. At least that’s my experience so far working the steps.
developer2 7y ago
While that is touted as being the case, many groups make use of the Serenity Prayer[1]. Most of the time, it directly invokes the use of "God" or "Father" which can turn off non-believers. Some groups use a variation that omits direct reference to a religious entity, while a few groups are committed to avoiding the prayer altogether. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer#Use_by_twelve-step_recovery_programs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenity_Prayer#Use_by_twelve-...

Kuraj 7y ago

I'm sorry you had to go through that. Thank you for telling me about Al-Anon - I will look into it myself.

athrowaway69 7y ago

> the 12 step program is super light on the spirituality stuff and very atheist friendly This is highly dependent on where you are. I experienced verbal abuse and was made to feel unwelcome at meetings when people found out I'm an atheist. People have told me, verbatim, "You don't belong here if you're denying God". Needless to say, I am no longer a part of that little cult. I'm doing fine without it.

Klonoar 7y ago
You know, I've gone to these meetings with a number of people (my mother, who unfortunately lost her battles with it, and other family members/friends). I'll note that I've done this worldwide, to some degree - Japan, USA (east and west coast). I'm saying this to point out that I'm in there as an observer for these people attempting recovery, so this experience is cultivated from multiple viewpoints/locales/etc. I have witnessed _exactly_ what you're saying, and I've seen people feel so unwelcome that it hurts them more than helps them. It blows my mind the stranglehold that AA has on this industry, given how demeaning it can be to people who are looking for help. I've seen more success with people going to SMART recovery meetings, which focus on providing a space to talk and seek help without the judgement level associated with AA.
- p7hwfizeONj 7y ago
  I reached a point where I realized I needed help to quit drinking. I looked into AA and a coworker whom I knew had gone through the program gave me a little red book. It felt very dogmatic and turned me off to the program. I never attended a meeting. Instead I read a different book that could be summarized as "There are lots of good reasons to stop drinking and lets go over them." I also used r/stopdrinking as a support group for daily check-ins. I can't say whether Alcoholics Anonymous would have helped me had I gone to the meetings but the literature was really unattractive. My understanding of SMART is they don't let you refer to yourself as an "alcoholic" or "addict". I feel that framing was much better for me than what I read in the Alcoholics Anonymous pamphlet.
  - deleted 7y ago

kilroy123 7y ago

I, too, went to AlAnon meetings when I was a teen. I honestly don't think I would be where I'm at today without going when I was younger.

abyssin 7y ago
Can you share about how it helped you?
- GiuseppaAcciaio 7y ago
  Not the person you were replying to, however for me it mainly helped me understand that my loved ones' drinking was not something I could control, and it allowed me to let go of the anger and resentment (easier said than done).

GiuseppaAcciaio 7y ago

Same here, been to Al-Anon meetings in London UK, all hosted in church basements and with zero religious nonsense being spouted... just the Serenity Prayer and tbh that one is just plain good advice so I did not mind :) I have nothing but praise for the 12-step system as I experienced it