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What part? “This is a country that hid the coronavirus case for 2-3 weeks” That’s the same as the USA refusing to test everyone in sufficient quantities right

What part? “This is a country that hid the coronavirus case for 2-3 weeks” That’s the same as the USA refusing to test everyone in sufficient quantities right? South Korea is testing 10k per day, has the US completed even 10k tests yet? “let 5 million Wuhan residents leave the city” That’s every state apart from perhaps 1 section on NY city and small parts of Seattle. “doctored numbers” Thats the refusing to test thing again right? There’s states with reportedly zero cases. Yeah right. “then most recently had government press try to spin the disease as if it didn’t come out of Wuhan, but rather somewhere other countries” That’s the current right wing press stating this is all baloney from the dems for their benefit. I’ve given a point by point refutation to the best of my ability, care to respond thoughtfully?

allovernow 7y ago
The difference is that in the US all of this is due to incompetence, but given the nature of our laws and society people are free to point out the shortcomings of the response. In China you are publicly admonished and/or disappeared for going against the official government narrative. That is a stark difference between not just Western/Chinese government, but culture, and cannot be underestimated. It leads to a totally different society and hopefully because of freedom of speech people will be more likely to take protective measures sooner as they realize that the government is responding poorly. Also you're much less likely to keep the majority of the population ignorant of an outbreak when you don't have a legal and judicial speech suppression machine. Yes, their authoritarian measures were effective in containing the spread (allegedly, all sources afaik from China have gone silent), but they did spend at least a month hiding the outbreak and keeping people from talking about it, for reasons I won't go into. Not all governments are created equal. Not all cultures are the same. That's pure fantasy brought about by decades of indoctrination in the west. Note that this isn't just blind nationalism. I fully recognize that under these circumstances the extreme authoritarianism in China may prove to be the best containment measure out of any other country short of North Korea. Good luck convincing 360MM Americans to stay home for a month.
- hackinthebochs 7y ago
  >The difference is that in the US all of this is due to incompetence I wouldn't be so sure. Trump's stock market is his best argument for re-election. It's very reasonable to think he would want to downplay anything that could disrupt the economy in the run up to the election.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    That theory still alleges incompetence, because covering it up for an extra month or even two won't impact the elections which are a long time from now.
- beaunative 7y ago
  The virus can still kill you no matter how 'free' you feel you are. I'm pretty sure dead people are much more freer than us as they don't have to think about any of these non-sense.
  - allovernow 7y ago
    You're missing the point. The freedom may make the virus less likely to spread as information about it is easier to come by. The more people know and the sooner, the better off we all are.
    - monocasa 7y ago
      The White House just made coronavirus planning classified. And in such a capricious way, that critical staff were excluded from meetings. Not sure how America's "freedom" is helping here. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive/exclusive-white-house-told-federal-health-agency-to-classify-coronavirus-deliberations-sources-idUSKBN20Y2LM https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrec...
    - beaunative 7y ago
      I know where you're coming from, but we don't live in a world where everyone CAN make seasoned decisions based on all these information available, they mostly just listen to auhtories of their choice maybe it's because of education, time or intelligence I don't know. And in this case your neighbor's choice hurt you regardless what your choice is. Just think about how many parents still refuse vacination for kids. Maybe on a college campus this could be true, but outside of it? I don't think so.
scohesc 7y ago
Yeah, I'm starting to think the disinformation campaigns are starting to affect HN now.

allovernow 7y ago

The difference is that in the US all of this is due to incompetence, but given the nature of our laws and society people are free to point out the shortcomings of the response. In China you are publicly admonished and/or disappeared for going against the official government narrative. That is a stark difference between not just Western/Chinese government, but culture, and cannot be underestimated. It leads to a totally different society and hopefully because of freedom of speech people will be more likely to take protective measures sooner as they realize that the government is responding poorly. Also you're much less likely to keep the majority of the population ignorant of an outbreak when you don't have a legal and judicial speech suppression machine. Yes, their authoritarian measures were effective in containing the spread (allegedly, all sources afaik from China have gone silent), but they did spend at least a month hiding the outbreak and keeping people from talking about it, for reasons I won't go into. Not all governments are created equal. Not all cultures are the same. That's pure fantasy brought about by decades of indoctrination in the west. Note that this isn't just blind nationalism. I fully recognize that under these circumstances the extreme authoritarianism in China may prove to be the best containment measure out of any other country short of North Korea. Good luck convincing 360MM Americans to stay home for a month.

hackinthebochs 7y ago
>The difference is that in the US all of this is due to incompetence I wouldn't be so sure. Trump's stock market is his best argument for re-election. It's very reasonable to think he would want to downplay anything that could disrupt the economy in the run up to the election.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  That theory still alleges incompetence, because covering it up for an extra month or even two won't impact the elections which are a long time from now.
beaunative 7y ago
The virus can still kill you no matter how 'free' you feel you are. I'm pretty sure dead people are much more freer than us as they don't have to think about any of these non-sense.
- allovernow 7y ago
  You're missing the point. The freedom may make the virus less likely to spread as information about it is easier to come by. The more people know and the sooner, the better off we all are.
  - monocasa 7y ago
    The White House just made coronavirus planning classified. And in such a capricious way, that critical staff were excluded from meetings. Not sure how America's "freedom" is helping here. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrecy-exclusive/exclusive-white-house-told-federal-health-agency-to-classify-coronavirus-deliberations-sources-idUSKBN20Y2LM https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-secrec...
  - beaunative 7y ago
    I know where you're coming from, but we don't live in a world where everyone CAN make seasoned decisions based on all these information available, they mostly just listen to auhtories of their choice maybe it's because of education, time or intelligence I don't know. And in this case your neighbor's choice hurt you regardless what your choice is. Just think about how many parents still refuse vacination for kids. Maybe on a college campus this could be true, but outside of it? I don't think so.

scohesc 7y ago

Yeah, I'm starting to think the disinformation campaigns are starting to affect HN now.