51 ms·

I work in government relations and this is neither news, nor anything new. Deliberations at the highest level have to be confidential at times, because the play

I work in government relations and this is neither news, nor anything new. Deliberations at the highest level have to be confidential at times, because the players are speaking brutally honest. They need to be able to make decisions and speak their mind without the media and the public second guessing everything. Passing legislation or making policy over time is one thing, but in a crisis like this, they have to move fast. I think the last thing we want is for policymakers to have to stop and keep justifying every single thing they do, that will just lead to paralysis.

fredgrott 7y ago
at the expense of not hearing from the experts they need to hear from? is your IQ only room warm?
grkkr 7y ago
> The White House has ordered federal health officials to treat top-level coronavirus meetings as classified, an unusual step that has restricted information and hampered the U.S. government’s response to the contagion, according to four Trump administration officials. There's the first para of the article which contradicts most of the arguments you're trying to make. This is according to officials dealing with this problem today.
AWildC182 7y ago
They're allowed to have discussion that exist off the record. Classifying things mean they are forcing such discussions to happen in secure facilities and under very specific terms in order to prevent foreign interception. That seems a bit like overkill to me.
kryogen1c 7y ago
i wonder how people can think that targeted ads are dangerous but also think discussions like this should be public. kay from the cloak and dagger, memory-erasing men in black knew: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals"
take_a_breath 7y ago
==I work in government relations and this is neither news, nor anything new. == Lots of people in this article disagree: > A high-level former official who helped address public health outbreaks in the George W. Bush administration said “it’s not normal to classify discussions about a response to a public health crisis.” > Attendees at the meetings included HHS Secretary Alex Azar and his chief of staff Brian Harrison, the officials said. Azar and Harrison resisted the classification of the meetings, the sources said. > One of the administration officials suggested the security clearances for meetings at HHS were imposed not to protect national security but to keep the information within a tight circle, to prevent leaks. “It seemed to be a tool for the White House - for the NSC - to keep participation in these meetings low,” the official said
- creaghpatr 7y ago
  Those quotes appear to prove OPs point about giving people in the discussions the ability to speak freely without second guessing from people like "a high-level former official".
  - JamesBarney 7y ago
    The point of state secrets isn't to allow elected officials to say embarrassing things.
    - Simulacra 7y ago
      I didn’t say embarrassing, but if you’re talking about a mass casualty event and how many body bags are going to need, and limitations that are in the system, and where resources are going to be diverted, how many might die, etc etc the last thing you would want is the public questioning every single thing. Because they will. If they don’t, the opposition party certainly will.
      - take_a_breath 7y ago
        The same logic used to keep lots of important information out of the prying eyes of voters and oversight committees. ==the last thing you would want is the public questioning every single thing. Because they will. If they don’t, the opposition party certainly will.== And if you classify it wouldn't that also cause the public to question "every single thing" just the same? Seems like the case we have proves that to be true as they hid it and people are still questioning.
pnw_hazor 7y ago
If high level meetings are not classified it would be hard to brainstorm about the potential impacts on military readiness, quarantines, shutdowns, lockouts, etc. Otherwise, meetings would have to be compartmentalized which would limit their usefulness.
- dhosek 7y ago
  If high level meetings are classified, important SMEs are unable to participate. This is not about protecting the deliberation process, this is more the typical Trumpian attempt to prevent embarrassing information from being revealed.
  - pnw_hazor 7y ago
    Clearly, there are trade-offs to be made. Making the meetings too open will also drive important topics and persons out of the room.
    - dhosek 7y ago
      The important people have been kept out of the room by the secrecy urge. This isn't about preserving the ability to deliberate, it's about trying to avoid embarrassing Trump to the detriment of the process.
      - dhosek 7y ago
        Wow, the Trumpists are downvoting. I'm not saying anything that isn't in the article.
kragen 7y ago
Yes, this is absolutely true, in a dictatorship. On the contrary, in open societies, it is precisely the fact that policymakers have to justify every single thing they do that provides the stability and prosperity that democracies generally enjoy and prevents the abuses of power that are endemic to dictatorships. It is definitely not normal for public health emergency planning outside the military to be classified. If there is information in there whose public availability would cause serious harm to national security, something has gone terribly wrong — a far more likely explanation is that the classification decision is the kind of quotidian lie that undergirds the self-serving corruption that habitually ruins authoritarian societies.

fredgrott 7y ago

at the expense of not hearing from the experts they need to hear from? is your IQ only room warm?

grkkr 7y ago

> The White House has ordered federal health officials to treat top-level coronavirus meetings as classified, an unusual step that has restricted information and hampered the U.S. government’s response to the contagion, according to four Trump administration officials. There's the first para of the article which contradicts most of the arguments you're trying to make. This is according to officials dealing with this problem today.

AWildC182 7y ago

They're allowed to have discussion that exist off the record. Classifying things mean they are forcing such discussions to happen in secure facilities and under very specific terms in order to prevent foreign interception. That seems a bit like overkill to me.

kryogen1c 7y ago

i wonder how people can think that targeted ads are dangerous but also think discussions like this should be public. kay from the cloak and dagger, memory-erasing men in black knew: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals"

take_a_breath 7y ago

==I work in government relations and this is neither news, nor anything new. == Lots of people in this article disagree: > A high-level former official who helped address public health outbreaks in the George W. Bush administration said “it’s not normal to classify discussions about a response to a public health crisis.” > Attendees at the meetings included HHS Secretary Alex Azar and his chief of staff Brian Harrison, the officials said. Azar and Harrison resisted the classification of the meetings, the sources said. > One of the administration officials suggested the security clearances for meetings at HHS were imposed not to protect national security but to keep the information within a tight circle, to prevent leaks. “It seemed to be a tool for the White House - for the NSC - to keep participation in these meetings low,” the official said

creaghpatr 7y ago
Those quotes appear to prove OPs point about giving people in the discussions the ability to speak freely without second guessing from people like "a high-level former official".
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  The point of state secrets isn't to allow elected officials to say embarrassing things.
  - Simulacra 7y ago
    I didn’t say embarrassing, but if you’re talking about a mass casualty event and how many body bags are going to need, and limitations that are in the system, and where resources are going to be diverted, how many might die, etc etc the last thing you would want is the public questioning every single thing. Because they will. If they don’t, the opposition party certainly will.
    - take_a_breath 7y ago
      The same logic used to keep lots of important information out of the prying eyes of voters and oversight committees. ==the last thing you would want is the public questioning every single thing. Because they will. If they don’t, the opposition party certainly will.== And if you classify it wouldn't that also cause the public to question "every single thing" just the same? Seems like the case we have proves that to be true as they hid it and people are still questioning.

pnw_hazor 7y ago

If high level meetings are not classified it would be hard to brainstorm about the potential impacts on military readiness, quarantines, shutdowns, lockouts, etc. Otherwise, meetings would have to be compartmentalized which would limit their usefulness.

dhosek 7y ago
If high level meetings are classified, important SMEs are unable to participate. This is not about protecting the deliberation process, this is more the typical Trumpian attempt to prevent embarrassing information from being revealed.
- pnw_hazor 7y ago
  Clearly, there are trade-offs to be made. Making the meetings too open will also drive important topics and persons out of the room.
  - dhosek 7y ago
    The important people have been kept out of the room by the secrecy urge. This isn't about preserving the ability to deliberate, it's about trying to avoid embarrassing Trump to the detriment of the process.
    - dhosek 7y ago
      Wow, the Trumpists are downvoting. I'm not saying anything that isn't in the article.

kragen 7y ago

Yes, this is absolutely true, in a dictatorship. On the contrary, in open societies, it is precisely the fact that policymakers have to justify every single thing they do that provides the stability and prosperity that democracies generally enjoy and prevents the abuses of power that are endemic to dictatorships. It is definitely not normal for public health emergency planning outside the military to be classified. If there is information in there whose public availability would cause serious harm to national security, something has gone terribly wrong — a far more likely explanation is that the classification decision is the kind of quotidian lie that undergirds the self-serving corruption that habitually ruins authoritarian societies.