4 ms·

Should you let your cat go outside? GPS study reveals the deadly consequences

6 points by evo_9 7y ago

iamcasen 7y ago
Yes this is troublesome, but as an owner of two cats, I can tell you keeping them inside is equally troublesome. I can tell my one athletic cat is not fulfilled. No amount of cat furniture or toys keeps him from clawing desperately at the door for his escape. I got cats because I've just always had them and I thought nothing more of it, but now I think I know better. I think it's honestly an ecological disaster that cats are kept as pets, period. If they are indoors, then there is the litter box issue. Outdoors, they kill all the local birds. Cat's are not domesticated in the same way that dogs are. Dogs can be trained and have instincts that lend themselves to human interaction. Cats are very much wild animals that just enjoy the free ride that comes with living near humans.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
matthewmacleod 7y ago
I notice that there's a real cultural or geographical difference on this issue. I've often heard people talk about how they'd never let their cats outdoors in the US – but we took in two shelter cats last year from a large and well-known rescue centre in the UK, and part of doing so was signing an agreement to allow them cat-flap access to the outdoors. The shelter was pretty clear that they would be visiting to verify this – and taking the cats back if we didn't. I guess I understand why it might be an ecological issue in some areas. But we live in a dense area of relatively central London – our cats wear bells, stay in at night, haven't brought home anything they have caught (if they've even ever caught anything), and to be honest I haven't ever observed them travelling more than maybe 20 metres away from the house. I guess I'm just unsure if they're actually causing more damage than I can see, but its really interesting to see the wide variety of views.
- blacksmith_tb 7y ago
  That's a surprise, in US one thing that is commonly stressed to new cat owners is that outdoor cats have a significantly lower life expectancy than indoor cats (partly due to disease, partly to being hit by cars or injured by other animals)[1], so it isn't just a question of how many birds they kill. 1: https://www.americanhumane.org/fact-sheet/indoor-cats-vs-outdoor-cats/ https://www.americanhumane.org/fact-sheet/indoor-cats-vs-out...
- kwhitefoot 7y ago
  > our cats wear bells My experience is that bells don't work. Partly because cats, in my experience, wait or stalk patiently and then move very fast so any noise from the bell is too late to act as a warning. I once saw our last cat (Norwegian long haired tabby forest cat) catch a bat just by waiting for it to fly over him at which point he just put up a paw and snatched it out of the air. Also he could actually run without his bell making a noise, and that was a bell that I could hardly move an inch in my hand without it tinkling.
gmiller123456 7y ago
Seems to be an incredibly biased article. Most people would not consider a cat killing a mouse as a damage to wildlife. While it's true to the meanings of the words, it misses the principle. People building houses and poorly storing food also causes an increase in the mouse population by increasing the abundance of food and nesting areas. And killing mice is one big reason a lot of people get a cat at all. They've also assumed that all kills are equal, e.g. a cat killing a mouse is considered the same as a wildcat killing a coyote, or opossum. I'm not doubting cats have some impact, but I'd be willing to bet it's trivial compared to the human impact. And if you're looking for ways to lessen the impact, your cat is likely one of the last things to consider.
- Ancalagon 7y ago
  Cats have a pretty negative effect on a lot of small wildlife because they are such proficient hunters: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/29/cats-wild-birds-mammals-study/1873871/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/29/cats-w... I don't know which human activities have the most detrimental effects on wildlife populations, but this is a good one to focus on.
- code_duck 7y ago
  Concern is more for vulnerable species on the decline such as songbirds than small mammals, and yes, cats do kill significant numbers.
chrisseaton 7y ago
Maybe we shouldn’t have cats at all if they’re genuinely doing serious damage, but having a cat and not letting it outdoors seems very unusual and cruel. They’re outdoor animals. If you can’t have one that you let outside then you shouldn’t have one at all.
foreigner 7y ago
I don't understand how it's okay to let cats wander outside simply from a hygiene perspective. When my dog poops in public areas I'm required by law to clean it up. Why do cat owners not have the same responsibility?
- kjaftaedi 7y ago
  Living in Iceland, we have a decent size cat population and the majority of cats are outdoor cats. It's often even seen as cruel to keep your pets locked indoors at all times. I've only known one person personally who doesn't let their cat out. I've never seen cat poop in public, despite there being all sorts of random cats wandering the streets. I've never even heard this concern come up before. Killing birds on the other hand .. that certainly is a debate topic.
08-15 7y ago
TL;DR: Cats are very effective at hunting mice. Why do these articles insist on talking about "small mammals"? Cats don't kill fluffy bunnies; they kill mice, rats, voles. They basically exterminate vermin around human settlements. That's exactly why we domesticated them in the first place! How is that a bad thing?!
- pixelbash 7y ago
  Our friends cat does kill fluffy bunnies, very regularly. Luckily they are a pest where they are, unfortunatrly he can be quite messy about it.

6 points by evo_9 7y ago

Yes this is troublesome, but as an owner of two cats, I can tell you keeping them inside is equally troublesome. I can tell my one athletic cat is not fulfilled. No amount of cat furniture or toys keeps him from clawing desperately at the door for his escape. I got cats because I've just always had them and I thought nothing more of it, but now I think I know better. I think it's honestly an ecological disaster that cats are kept as pets, period. If they are indoors, then there is the litter box issue. Outdoors, they kill all the local birds. Cat's are not domesticated in the same way that dogs are. Dogs can be trained and have instincts that lend themselves to human interaction. Cats are very much wild animals that just enjoy the free ride that comes with living near humans.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

matthewmacleod 7y ago

I notice that there's a real cultural or geographical difference on this issue. I've often heard people talk about how they'd never let their cats outdoors in the US – but we took in two shelter cats last year from a large and well-known rescue centre in the UK, and part of doing so was signing an agreement to allow them cat-flap access to the outdoors. The shelter was pretty clear that they would be visiting to verify this – and taking the cats back if we didn't. I guess I understand why it might be an ecological issue in some areas. But we live in a dense area of relatively central London – our cats wear bells, stay in at night, haven't brought home anything they have caught (if they've even ever caught anything), and to be honest I haven't ever observed them travelling more than maybe 20 metres away from the house. I guess I'm just unsure if they're actually causing more damage than I can see, but its really interesting to see the wide variety of views.

blacksmith_tb 7y ago
That's a surprise, in US one thing that is commonly stressed to new cat owners is that outdoor cats have a significantly lower life expectancy than indoor cats (partly due to disease, partly to being hit by cars or injured by other animals)[1], so it isn't just a question of how many birds they kill. 1: https://www.americanhumane.org/fact-sheet/indoor-cats-vs-outdoor-cats/ https://www.americanhumane.org/fact-sheet/indoor-cats-vs-out...
kwhitefoot 7y ago
> our cats wear bells My experience is that bells don't work. Partly because cats, in my experience, wait or stalk patiently and then move very fast so any noise from the bell is too late to act as a warning. I once saw our last cat (Norwegian long haired tabby forest cat) catch a bat just by waiting for it to fly over him at which point he just put up a paw and snatched it out of the air. Also he could actually run without his bell making a noise, and that was a bell that I could hardly move an inch in my hand without it tinkling.

gmiller123456 7y ago

Seems to be an incredibly biased article. Most people would not consider a cat killing a mouse as a damage to wildlife. While it's true to the meanings of the words, it misses the principle. People building houses and poorly storing food also causes an increase in the mouse population by increasing the abundance of food and nesting areas. And killing mice is one big reason a lot of people get a cat at all. They've also assumed that all kills are equal, e.g. a cat killing a mouse is considered the same as a wildcat killing a coyote, or opossum. I'm not doubting cats have some impact, but I'd be willing to bet it's trivial compared to the human impact. And if you're looking for ways to lessen the impact, your cat is likely one of the last things to consider.

Ancalagon 7y ago
Cats have a pretty negative effect on a lot of small wildlife because they are such proficient hunters: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/29/cats-wild-birds-mammals-study/1873871/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/01/29/cats-w... I don't know which human activities have the most detrimental effects on wildlife populations, but this is a good one to focus on.
code_duck 7y ago
Concern is more for vulnerable species on the decline such as songbirds than small mammals, and yes, cats do kill significant numbers.

chrisseaton 7y ago

Maybe we shouldn’t have cats at all if they’re genuinely doing serious damage, but having a cat and not letting it outdoors seems very unusual and cruel. They’re outdoor animals. If you can’t have one that you let outside then you shouldn’t have one at all.

foreigner 7y ago

I don't understand how it's okay to let cats wander outside simply from a hygiene perspective. When my dog poops in public areas I'm required by law to clean it up. Why do cat owners not have the same responsibility?

kjaftaedi 7y ago
Living in Iceland, we have a decent size cat population and the majority of cats are outdoor cats. It's often even seen as cruel to keep your pets locked indoors at all times. I've only known one person personally who doesn't let their cat out. I've never seen cat poop in public, despite there being all sorts of random cats wandering the streets. I've never even heard this concern come up before. Killing birds on the other hand .. that certainly is a debate topic.

08-15 7y ago

TL;DR: Cats are very effective at hunting mice. Why do these articles insist on talking about "small mammals"? Cats don't kill fluffy bunnies; they kill mice, rats, voles. They basically exterminate vermin around human settlements. That's exactly why we domesticated them in the first place! How is that a bad thing?!

pixelbash 7y ago
Our friends cat does kill fluffy bunnies, very regularly. Luckily they are a pest where they are, unfortunatrly he can be quite messy about it.