4 ms·

Anecdotally, self-help is an effective approach not mentioned in the article.

bsagdiyev 7y ago
I agree, but having attended AA meetings to support my significant other I can really see how the groups and meetings help. For the people like you and me who can work through it ourselves, there will be a hundred who can't and where the program helps. Personally I have an issue with giving up control absolutely as it is worded, since I like to be in control of my destiny, but I respect and appreciate the wonders that AA can work for people.
billjings 7y ago
It works for a lot of people. For many people, particularly the worst cases, it does not. Most people who end up in AA have tried self-help already.
- snurfer 7y ago
  For people who lack willpower and who suffer the continual moral failing of their dependency on alcohol, AA is an option.
  - billjings 7y ago
    I really take issue with this characterization. Please have some respect and humility: addiction is a serious matter, and this characterization of addicts as weak-willed and immoral is inaccurate and misleading for anyone out there who is seeking a way out.
    - snurfer 7y ago
      Who said anything about "addicts"? I was talking about drunks.
      - sfkdjf9j3j 7y ago
        Modern medicine treats alcohol abuse and addiction as similar to other chemical dependencies. I don't know what to tell you. Your callous dismissal of the seriousness of alcohol dependency is an ideological position, not one based on reason or science.
        snurfer 7y ago
        Excuse me, but I offer a rational alternative to the religion of Alcoholics Anonymous. Would you say AA is the bastion of reason and science?
        jerf 7y ago
        No, you didn't. First you insulted, then you corrected someone, now you're trying to raise a flamewar smokescreen. Please just stop.
        dang 7y ago
        Please stop doing flamewar on Hacker News. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - alexilliamson 7y ago
    It's also great for people who have alcoholism
    - snurfer 7y ago
      Almost certainly, anyone who calls themselves "alcoholic" should probably give Alcoholics Anonymous a try. However, alcoholism is not a disease and AA isn't the only answer.
      - bones6 7y ago
        You left out the phrase "in my opinion" from your very strong opinion statement that alcoholism is not a disease. You could qualify your opinion, such as "in my professional opinion as a psychologist", or "in my layperson opinion through my experience with people who believe they are alcoholics". Or even better perhaps "in my opinion as someone who thought I was addicted, I solved my problem this way...". Try harder.
    - jl2718 7y ago
      I don’t agree with either of these characterizations. It is not a disease because the cure comes instantly by a decision from within. It is not a moral failing because the substance subverts moral reasoning. I am not religious, but I find the religious view to be accurate: a good soul fallen, that needs to be saved. Source: a lifetime of addiction in my family and loved ones. Some made it out. That transformation is astonishing. Others didn’t. When you think it can’t get any worse, it can. It’s made me realize that we are all addicts. There is always some void in life that becomes deeper by the behavior used to fill it. Everybody.
      - daseiner1 7y ago
        I'm sorry, but I sincerely question your understanding of addiction, the program, those closest to you if you genuinely believe "the cure comes instantly by a decision from within." If this were true then chronic short term sobriety followed by relapse wouldn't be so common. My impression is reinforced with, imo, your trite "we're ALL addicts" platitude. Yeah, we all get distracted sometimes and get hung up on the bit of cleaning. That doesn't mean we all have ADHD and OCD. There are ways to establish a middle ground without downplaying legitimate disorders.
  - metabagel 7y ago
    I don’t consider alcoholism to be a moral failing. It’s more of a life hurdle. In general, the benefits of alcohol are overrated, and the drawbacks are underrated in our popular culture. Alcohol consumption increases anxiety and depression. This doesn’t get enough attention.
placer 7y ago
It’s been established for a long time in the treatment field that AA (or pretty much anything else) works a lot better than no treatment. Brandsma 1980 is the only study I can think of off of the top of my head comparing AA (and a few other therapies) to no treatment; AA (and everything else) did significantly better than getting no help. What this new Cochrane study demonstrates is that AA is more effective at giving alcoholics long-term abstinence than traditional psychotherapy treatments.

I agree, but having attended AA meetings to support my significant other I can really see how the groups and meetings help. For the people like you and me who can work through it ourselves, there will be a hundred who can't and where the program helps. Personally I have an issue with giving up control absolutely as it is worded, since I like to be in control of my destiny, but I respect and appreciate the wonders that AA can work for people.

billjings 7y ago

It works for a lot of people. For many people, particularly the worst cases, it does not. Most people who end up in AA have tried self-help already.

snurfer 7y ago
For people who lack willpower and who suffer the continual moral failing of their dependency on alcohol, AA is an option.
- billjings 7y ago
  I really take issue with this characterization. Please have some respect and humility: addiction is a serious matter, and this characterization of addicts as weak-willed and immoral is inaccurate and misleading for anyone out there who is seeking a way out.
  - snurfer 7y ago
    Who said anything about "addicts"? I was talking about drunks.
    - sfkdjf9j3j 7y ago
      Modern medicine treats alcohol abuse and addiction as similar to other chemical dependencies. I don't know what to tell you. Your callous dismissal of the seriousness of alcohol dependency is an ideological position, not one based on reason or science.
      - snurfer 7y ago
        Excuse me, but I offer a rational alternative to the religion of Alcoholics Anonymous. Would you say AA is the bastion of reason and science?
        jerf 7y ago
        No, you didn't. First you insulted, then you corrected someone, now you're trying to raise a flamewar smokescreen. Please just stop.
        dang 7y ago
        Please stop doing flamewar on Hacker News. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- alexilliamson 7y ago
  It's also great for people who have alcoholism
  - snurfer 7y ago
    Almost certainly, anyone who calls themselves "alcoholic" should probably give Alcoholics Anonymous a try. However, alcoholism is not a disease and AA isn't the only answer.
    - bones6 7y ago
      You left out the phrase "in my opinion" from your very strong opinion statement that alcoholism is not a disease. You could qualify your opinion, such as "in my professional opinion as a psychologist", or "in my layperson opinion through my experience with people who believe they are alcoholics". Or even better perhaps "in my opinion as someone who thought I was addicted, I solved my problem this way...". Try harder.
  - jl2718 7y ago
    I don’t agree with either of these characterizations. It is not a disease because the cure comes instantly by a decision from within. It is not a moral failing because the substance subverts moral reasoning. I am not religious, but I find the religious view to be accurate: a good soul fallen, that needs to be saved. Source: a lifetime of addiction in my family and loved ones. Some made it out. That transformation is astonishing. Others didn’t. When you think it can’t get any worse, it can. It’s made me realize that we are all addicts. There is always some void in life that becomes deeper by the behavior used to fill it. Everybody.
    - daseiner1 7y ago
      I'm sorry, but I sincerely question your understanding of addiction, the program, those closest to you if you genuinely believe "the cure comes instantly by a decision from within." If this were true then chronic short term sobriety followed by relapse wouldn't be so common. My impression is reinforced with, imo, your trite "we're ALL addicts" platitude. Yeah, we all get distracted sometimes and get hung up on the bit of cleaning. That doesn't mean we all have ADHD and OCD. There are ways to establish a middle ground without downplaying legitimate disorders.
- metabagel 7y ago
  I don’t consider alcoholism to be a moral failing. It’s more of a life hurdle. In general, the benefits of alcohol are overrated, and the drawbacks are underrated in our popular culture. Alcohol consumption increases anxiety and depression. This doesn’t get enough attention.

placer 7y ago

It’s been established for a long time in the treatment field that AA (or pretty much anything else) works a lot better than no treatment. Brandsma 1980 is the only study I can think of off of the top of my head comparing AA (and a few other therapies) to no treatment; AA (and everything else) did significantly better than getting no help. What this new Cochrane study demonstrates is that AA is more effective at giving alcoholics long-term abstinence than traditional psychotherapy treatments.