4 ms·

This reminds me of the gameboy copy protection. The device looked for the Nintendo bitmap in the cartridge boot screen before it continued execution. That way y

This reminds me of the gameboy copy protection. The device looked for the Nintendo bitmap in the cartridge boot screen before it continued execution. That way you couldn't make third party cartridges without stepping on their trademark. (On mobile so can't find video source)

tomxor 7y ago
Interesting, that's pretty cunning... Not indefeatable i wonder? The interesting thing about cartridges is their potential to house more than just a ROM, there have been a few HN posts about such games - in one of them it effectively worked around the physical memory address limitations by switching blocks based on the contents of a small area of memory. In this case perhaps a gameboy cartridge could differentiate the sequence of reads for nintendo bitmap detection (which could be argued as API) and reads for the actual boot display and present different data... that's assuming they are separate reads, if the gameboy handles boot display all by itself and checks in the same step then i guess it's indefeatable.
- thristian 7y ago
  A real Game Boy reads the logo data once to copy it into video RAM, then a second time to validate it, so a cart with clever hardware can make the boot-up logo display whatever they want: https://dhole.github.io/post/gameboy_custom_logo/ https://dhole.github.io/post/gameboy_custom_logo/ Of course, you still have to include a copy of the Nintendo logo to get past the BIOS check, even if it's not displayed, which I think is supposed to be the trademark infringement.
  - tomxor 7y ago
    cool > Of course, you still have to include a copy of the Nintendo logo to get past the BIOS check, even if it's not displayed, which I think is supposed to be the trademark infringement. Yeah i think this is the bit that a brave publisher could have argued in court, I think for it to be a trademark violation it would have to be visible somewhere beyond the raw content of the ROM. That's why i'd argue it's essentially being used as an API token, and trademark definitely doesn't cover that.
jlokier 7y ago
Something like this has been done before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade > As a result of the piracy and unlicensed development issues, Sega incorporated a technical protection mechanism into a new edition of the Genesis released in 1990, referred to as the Genesis III. This new variation of the Genesis included code known as the Trademark Security System (TMSS), which, when a game cartridge was inserted into the console, would check for the presence of the string "SEGA" at a particular point in the memory contained in the cartridge. If and only if the string was present, the console would run the game, and would briefly display the message: "PRODUCED BY OR UNDER LICENSE FROM SEGA ENTERPRISES LTD." This system had a twofold effect: it added extra protection against unlicensed developers and software piracy, and it forced the Sega trademark to display when the game was powered up, making a lawsuit for trademark infringement possible if unlicensed software were to be developed. [...] > The Ninth Circuit reversed the district court's order and ruled that Accolade's use of reverse engineering to publish Genesis titles was protected under fair use, and that its alleged violation of Sega trademarks was the fault of Sega. The case is frequently cited in matters involving reverse engineering and fair use under copyright law.
strictnein 7y ago
Couldn't find this anywhere, but I swear John Carmack once mentioned that a reason they included the textures in Quake BSPs was as a form of copy protection. They were annoyed with people grabbing lots of Doom wads and selling them. Maybe he mentioned that in his .plan file that you had to use finger to access. Edit: Sort of correct. A bunch of details here: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/license/quakeedit.html http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/license/quakeedit.html
jml7c5 7y ago
See also: https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/ https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/ Written by someone who worked on MSN Messenger. Talks about repeatedly reverse-engineering the AOL messenger protocol, and AOL's attempts to stop them.

tomxor 7y ago

Interesting, that's pretty cunning... Not indefeatable i wonder? The interesting thing about cartridges is their potential to house more than just a ROM, there have been a few HN posts about such games - in one of them it effectively worked around the physical memory address limitations by switching blocks based on the contents of a small area of memory. In this case perhaps a gameboy cartridge could differentiate the sequence of reads for nintendo bitmap detection (which could be argued as API) and reads for the actual boot display and present different data... that's assuming they are separate reads, if the gameboy handles boot display all by itself and checks in the same step then i guess it's indefeatable.

thristian 7y ago
A real Game Boy reads the logo data once to copy it into video RAM, then a second time to validate it, so a cart with clever hardware can make the boot-up logo display whatever they want: https://dhole.github.io/post/gameboy_custom_logo/ https://dhole.github.io/post/gameboy_custom_logo/ Of course, you still have to include a copy of the Nintendo logo to get past the BIOS check, even if it's not displayed, which I think is supposed to be the trademark infringement.
- tomxor 7y ago
  cool > Of course, you still have to include a copy of the Nintendo logo to get past the BIOS check, even if it's not displayed, which I think is supposed to be the trademark infringement. Yeah i think this is the bit that a brave publisher could have argued in court, I think for it to be a trademark violation it would have to be visible somewhere beyond the raw content of the ROM. That's why i'd argue it's essentially being used as an API token, and trademark definitely doesn't cover that.

jlokier 7y ago

Something like this has been done before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade > As a result of the piracy and unlicensed development issues, Sega incorporated a technical protection mechanism into a new edition of the Genesis released in 1990, referred to as the Genesis III. This new variation of the Genesis included code known as the Trademark Security System (TMSS), which, when a game cartridge was inserted into the console, would check for the presence of the string "SEGA" at a particular point in the memory contained in the cartridge. If and only if the string was present, the console would run the game, and would briefly display the message: "PRODUCED BY OR UNDER LICENSE FROM SEGA ENTERPRISES LTD." This system had a twofold effect: it added extra protection against unlicensed developers and software piracy, and it forced the Sega trademark to display when the game was powered up, making a lawsuit for trademark infringement possible if unlicensed software were to be developed. [...] > The Ninth Circuit reversed the district court's order and ruled that Accolade's use of reverse engineering to publish Genesis titles was protected under fair use, and that its alleged violation of Sega trademarks was the fault of Sega. The case is frequently cited in matters involving reverse engineering and fair use under copyright law.

strictnein 7y ago

Couldn't find this anywhere, but I swear John Carmack once mentioned that a reason they included the textures in Quake BSPs was as a form of copy protection. They were annoyed with people grabbing lots of Doom wads and selling them. Maybe he mentioned that in his .plan file that you had to use finger to access. Edit: Sort of correct. A bunch of details here: http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/license/quakeedit.html http://www.gamers.org/dEngine/license/quakeedit.html

jml7c5 7y ago

See also: https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/ https://nplusonemag.com/issue-19/essays/chat-wars/ Written by someone who worked on MSN Messenger. Talks about repeatedly reverse-engineering the AOL messenger protocol, and AOL's attempts to stop them.