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> I think if Oracle wins, the best thing that could happen is IBM immediately suing for infringment on SQL. IBM's potential claim on SQL wouldn't be a threat t

> I think if Oracle wins, the best thing that could happen is IBM immediately suing for infringment on SQL. IBM's potential claim on SQL wouldn't be a threat to Oracle. IBM uses Java heavily. The most likely outcome is that the two companies reach a deal to cross-license with maybe a modest amount of money exchanged, freeing them each to go after everyone else.

wbl 7y ago
IMB cannot be sued for using code Oracle granted a perpetual license to them for, namely OpenJDK.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  IBM has their own implementations.
  - pulse7 7y ago
    ...and has paid license to Oracle/Sun for it...
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      That is the thing Google fanbase keeps missing out, there are plenty of JVM implementations out there, although the number has gone a little down since OpenJDK and GraalVM introductions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#Proprietary_implementations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#... Even some non-compliant like MicroEJ, https://www.microej.com/product/sdk/ https://www.microej.com/product/sdk/ None of them was ever sued, because they play by the rules, instead of playing the "I am the big boy, I follow no rules" that is Google's stance at this.
      - dtech 7y ago
        What are the rules Google broke?
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Breaking the Java compatibility story, working around that Java free licensing was originally only allowed for desktop and server deployments, helping Sun go bankrupt and not doing what have rescued them from a lawsuit by buying Java assets from Sun, and whatever else courts might rule.
        xorcist 7y ago
        That's why Google was so cautious to avoid using the Java trademark, and strictly talked about the Dalvik bytecode and compiler and so on. Java compatibility is enforced by trademarks. In order to call something Java it has to pass certain tests and there is a cost attached to it. There has been many free Java implementations before that had to call themselves something else to be in the clear, IcedTea being perhaps the most well known. This litigation, however, was never about trademark law. Oracle knows that would be a short lived process. They instead made up argument about how function definitions under certain circumstances could be copyrighted, that could keep their lawyers busy for a long time. By throwing a lot of money at this they could sow fear about their competitor's business model. It's straight out of the Microsoft, by way of SCO, playbook.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Ironically, given that Android Java is a J++ copy cat regarding the damage to the Java portability story, trademark or not. Worse, Google cleverarly takes advantage of their Android Java fork stagnation to sell Kotlin over Java, while being fully aware that modern Java makes many of those code examples pro Kotlin worthless.
        dtech 7y ago
        This is all pretty irrelevant whatboutism. It is all entirely unrelated to Oracle sueing Google. Google could be 100% tracking newer Java language features and Oracle would still have made this lawsuits. It's financial compensation or competitive advantage they are after or something, compatiblity and feature parity is very low on Oracle lawyer's list.

wbl 7y ago

IMB cannot be sued for using code Oracle granted a perpetual license to them for, namely OpenJDK.

pjmlp 7y ago
IBM has their own implementations.
- pulse7 7y ago
  ...and has paid license to Oracle/Sun for it...
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    That is the thing Google fanbase keeps missing out, there are plenty of JVM implementations out there, although the number has gone a little down since OpenJDK and GraalVM introductions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#Proprietary_implementations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Java_virtual_machines#... Even some non-compliant like MicroEJ, https://www.microej.com/product/sdk/ https://www.microej.com/product/sdk/ None of them was ever sued, because they play by the rules, instead of playing the "I am the big boy, I follow no rules" that is Google's stance at this.
    - dtech 7y ago
      What are the rules Google broke?
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Breaking the Java compatibility story, working around that Java free licensing was originally only allowed for desktop and server deployments, helping Sun go bankrupt and not doing what have rescued them from a lawsuit by buying Java assets from Sun, and whatever else courts might rule.
        xorcist 7y ago
        That's why Google was so cautious to avoid using the Java trademark, and strictly talked about the Dalvik bytecode and compiler and so on. Java compatibility is enforced by trademarks. In order to call something Java it has to pass certain tests and there is a cost attached to it. There has been many free Java implementations before that had to call themselves something else to be in the clear, IcedTea being perhaps the most well known. This litigation, however, was never about trademark law. Oracle knows that would be a short lived process. They instead made up argument about how function definitions under certain circumstances could be copyrighted, that could keep their lawyers busy for a long time. By throwing a lot of money at this they could sow fear about their competitor's business model. It's straight out of the Microsoft, by way of SCO, playbook.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Ironically, given that Android Java is a J++ copy cat regarding the damage to the Java portability story, trademark or not. Worse, Google cleverarly takes advantage of their Android Java fork stagnation to sell Kotlin over Java, while being fully aware that modern Java makes many of those code examples pro Kotlin worthless.
        dtech 7y ago
        This is all pretty irrelevant whatboutism. It is all entirely unrelated to Oracle sueing Google. Google could be 100% tracking newer Java language features and Oracle would still have made this lawsuits. It's financial compensation or competitive advantage they are after or something, compatiblity and feature parity is very low on Oracle lawyer's list.