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> banishing contributors for wrongthink And now he is banished. Are you really arguing against this?

tedunangst 7y ago
Wrongthink shouldn't make you immune from banishment for being an asshole.
aeturnum 7y ago
I think communities have the right to decide on what kind of engagement they want. ESR could be acting within the community standards of OSI, in which case I don't think he should be banned. I also find the way he engages to be more hostile than I'm comfortable with and probably wouldn't want to work an environment where it was the norm.
- ogre_codes 7y ago
  ESR was OFF the lists for 20 years prior to posting this message. Seems like he's out-of-touch with what the community standards are.
- cosmiccatnap 7y ago
  If you said that at work you would be fired, because nobody can have a civilized conversation with you and no progress can be made. Nobody is stopping him from expressing himself in his personal life but if you are going to bring your crap to work expect there to be consequences.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    Some people would be fired if they wore a tshirt to work. I don't think whether or not a behavior would be tolerated by corporations should be the measure by which we judge appropriateness in any context other than a corporate workplace.
  - speakingcode 7y ago
    Where do you work? because in every developer/engineer job I've worked over the past 12 years, in corproate, academic, small business and startup environments, hostility, foul language, heated arguments and even implications of violence run amok. When/if it is appropriate is a delicate and tricky balancing act that requires careful judgement (which is sometimes misplaced), and the nuances are such that no policy (or lack of policy) can adequately accommodate them. I'm not an expert on government and law, but it is my understanding that due process is rooted in the recognition that circumstances are often more nuanced than laws can accommodate, and so evaluation of the circumstances are necessary for every case. I'm not saying OSI actions should follow the same due process as criminal courts, but my point is no, saying the things he said at countless companies, corporations, environments, under some context or another, would not result in firing.
sascha_sl 7y ago
He is banished for being an ass, not for his exhaustive level-headed critique of known supermarxist coraline ada ehmke /s
- core-questions 7y ago
  Coraline is pox on the community that uses their 'marginalized' status as a hammer against reasonable people across multiple projects. You want toxicity, there it is - stirring up drama where there was none in the name of the culture war.

Wrongthink shouldn't make you immune from banishment for being an asshole.

I think communities have the right to decide on what kind of engagement they want. ESR could be acting within the community standards of OSI, in which case I don't think he should be banned. I also find the way he engages to be more hostile than I'm comfortable with and probably wouldn't want to work an environment where it was the norm.

ogre_codes 7y ago
ESR was OFF the lists for 20 years prior to posting this message. Seems like he's out-of-touch with what the community standards are.
cosmiccatnap 7y ago
If you said that at work you would be fired, because nobody can have a civilized conversation with you and no progress can be made. Nobody is stopping him from expressing himself in his personal life but if you are going to bring your crap to work expect there to be consequences.
- catalogia 7y ago
  Some people would be fired if they wore a tshirt to work. I don't think whether or not a behavior would be tolerated by corporations should be the measure by which we judge appropriateness in any context other than a corporate workplace.
- speakingcode 7y ago
  Where do you work? because in every developer/engineer job I've worked over the past 12 years, in corproate, academic, small business and startup environments, hostility, foul language, heated arguments and even implications of violence run amok. When/if it is appropriate is a delicate and tricky balancing act that requires careful judgement (which is sometimes misplaced), and the nuances are such that no policy (or lack of policy) can adequately accommodate them. I'm not an expert on government and law, but it is my understanding that due process is rooted in the recognition that circumstances are often more nuanced than laws can accommodate, and so evaluation of the circumstances are necessary for every case. I'm not saying OSI actions should follow the same due process as criminal courts, but my point is no, saying the things he said at countless companies, corporations, environments, under some context or another, would not result in firing.

sascha_sl 7y ago

He is banished for being an ass, not for his exhaustive level-headed critique of known supermarxist coraline ada ehmke /s

core-questions 7y ago
Coraline is pox on the community that uses their 'marginalized' status as a hammer against reasonable people across multiple projects. You want toxicity, there it is - stirring up drama where there was none in the name of the culture war.