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Companies won't do it because they fear being taken to court for discrimination. When hiring we were specifically advised by our legal team not to tell people

Companies won't do it because they fear being taken to court for discrimination. When hiring we were specifically advised by our legal team not to tell people why they were unsuccessful. It doesn't matter how careful you are, anything you say can be leapt upon by an unsuccessful candidate and used as an excuse to drag you to court claiming that they were discriminated against. This is especially true in these days of "No Win, No Fee" lawyers. Sometimes, of course, the prospective candidate really has no skills at all in the required areas. I'm reminded of the Tom Lehrer quotation: " ... one of the many fine things one has to admit is the way that the army has carried the American democratic ideal to its logical conclusion in the sense that not only do they prohibit discrimination on the grounds of race, creed, and color, but also on the grounds of ability. " But I'd love to tell people why they were unsuccessful. I'd love to give them the opportunity to learn, to grow, to improve, or in some cases simply to say "Well, I guess we weren't a good fit." However, the age of litigation prevents me from doing that. And I'm not allowed to say "Sorry" either, because that could be taken as an admission of culpability. (edited to add the Lehrer quotation)

injekt 16y ago
I didn't really think of "Oh maybe some companies DO want to give feedback, its just better that they dont, for say perhaps, legal reasons". The sorry part makes total sense though, I've seen that a lot. I guess there are those kind of people who feel discriminated against what might only be some helpful feedback, it's a shame, because it's one of the most educational means of response I've come across, in my experience. Thanks for your response
petervandijck 16y ago
Also, for real, about 8 out of 10 people take it badly. I've tried it. It just doesn't work. Why don't you ask for it though? A quick reply: "I'd love to hear why I was rejected, won't take it badly, but as an opportunity to learn". Don't make them do all the work.
- stop 16y ago
  Good point but I would say don't bother asking. The answer will be useless to you because you can't trust its authenticity. Only people inside the company will know the real reason and perhaps not even there.
  - petervandijck 16y ago
    If someone would ask me, I'd tell them honestly. Never happened though.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  I wonder if a journalistic website might help? A writer could vet people who are genuine hirers and become an avenue for them to anonymously talk about their frustrations.
darklajid 16y ago
This comes up a lot in these types of discussions, but I have a (major) gripe with this: Laws differ. There are some large (and overrepresented on this site?) countries in the world that have a "sue them" culture and, obviously, laws to back this type of behavior. Lots of countries don't, though - and there I'd expect this kind of feedback. I know, I'm not a lawyer and I might even be a bit naive here, but telling me that I seemed to lack the required understanding in technology X or couldn't convince them that I'd get up to speed in Y shouldn't open any chance to drag in a lawyer. Of course, things like 'you didn't fit the team' or 'your personal hygiene is not good enough for our corporate standards' might be something that is harder to disclose.. Bottomline: I hate your easy way out, giving no valueable feedback at all/in general.
- Nitramp 16y ago
  Look at it from the company perspective. Out of 10 people, you'll probably upset 5, or enter a discussion with them asserting they are actually good; maybe 4 actually accept criticism and are thankful, and one sues. So for the most part, it's doing more damage than good to the company image (and from my personal experience, I guess the ratio of not-taking-criticism people is much higher), and might get you into trouble that is at least annoying (sued). On the other hand, the company has exactly nothing to win from this. If the candidate really were good and only had to learn X, then they'd probably hire him anyway, and the negative image effects for many people certainly outweigh the positive for a few.
  - darklajid 16y ago
    I agree - somewhat. I'd like to waive the legal stuff (see above, I'm just unconvinced that a lot of perfectly valid reasons to reject a candidate offer legal problems in a lot of places around the world). But obviously your 'why help someone that you don't want' point is valid. I'd say it still should be done: - Just as it is a good idea for a person to think of "You'll always meet twice in life" I kind of think that a company should do the same. That guy might come around alot smarter and you do want him the second time. Or he might work elsewhere and be your contact when your company does a deal with that company. - He talks about small companies. I kind of expect employers that probably offer 'transparency, lack of hierarchies, ..' to be more human. I'm pondering a lot about the 'they'll take it badly' comments right now (not only from you, all over this HN thread). I was _sure_ that most people feel like the author of the blog entry, seriously missing out the honest feedback. Maybe I was too naive..
tintin 16y ago
You could also tell why the one you hired was successful.
- RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
  No you can't. The rejected candidate can say "But I can do X Y and Z better than they can!" and now you're in an endless death spiral.
  - tintin 16y ago
    My experience is that a lot of people don't have any problem with it. It is more friendly to say: "the hired candidate has a lot more experience" than "you lack experience". The death spiral candidate will try to discuss his rejection anyway.

injekt 16y ago

I didn't really think of "Oh maybe some companies DO want to give feedback, its just better that they dont, for say perhaps, legal reasons". The sorry part makes total sense though, I've seen that a lot. I guess there are those kind of people who feel discriminated against what might only be some helpful feedback, it's a shame, because it's one of the most educational means of response I've come across, in my experience. Thanks for your response

petervandijck 16y ago

Also, for real, about 8 out of 10 people take it badly. I've tried it. It just doesn't work. Why don't you ask for it though? A quick reply: "I'd love to hear why I was rejected, won't take it badly, but as an opportunity to learn". Don't make them do all the work.

stop 16y ago
Good point but I would say don't bother asking. The answer will be useless to you because you can't trust its authenticity. Only people inside the company will know the real reason and perhaps not even there.
- petervandijck 16y ago
  If someone would ask me, I'd tell them honestly. Never happened though.
stcredzero 16y ago
I wonder if a journalistic website might help? A writer could vet people who are genuine hirers and become an avenue for them to anonymously talk about their frustrations.

darklajid 16y ago

This comes up a lot in these types of discussions, but I have a (major) gripe with this: Laws differ. There are some large (and overrepresented on this site?) countries in the world that have a "sue them" culture and, obviously, laws to back this type of behavior. Lots of countries don't, though - and there I'd expect this kind of feedback. I know, I'm not a lawyer and I might even be a bit naive here, but telling me that I seemed to lack the required understanding in technology X or couldn't convince them that I'd get up to speed in Y shouldn't open any chance to drag in a lawyer. Of course, things like 'you didn't fit the team' or 'your personal hygiene is not good enough for our corporate standards' might be something that is harder to disclose.. Bottomline: I hate your easy way out, giving no valueable feedback at all/in general.

Nitramp 16y ago
Look at it from the company perspective. Out of 10 people, you'll probably upset 5, or enter a discussion with them asserting they are actually good; maybe 4 actually accept criticism and are thankful, and one sues. So for the most part, it's doing more damage than good to the company image (and from my personal experience, I guess the ratio of not-taking-criticism people is much higher), and might get you into trouble that is at least annoying (sued). On the other hand, the company has exactly nothing to win from this. If the candidate really were good and only had to learn X, then they'd probably hire him anyway, and the negative image effects for many people certainly outweigh the positive for a few.
- darklajid 16y ago
  I agree - somewhat. I'd like to waive the legal stuff (see above, I'm just unconvinced that a lot of perfectly valid reasons to reject a candidate offer legal problems in a lot of places around the world). But obviously your 'why help someone that you don't want' point is valid. I'd say it still should be done: - Just as it is a good idea for a person to think of "You'll always meet twice in life" I kind of think that a company should do the same. That guy might come around alot smarter and you do want him the second time. Or he might work elsewhere and be your contact when your company does a deal with that company. - He talks about small companies. I kind of expect employers that probably offer 'transparency, lack of hierarchies, ..' to be more human. I'm pondering a lot about the 'they'll take it badly' comments right now (not only from you, all over this HN thread). I was _sure_ that most people feel like the author of the blog entry, seriously missing out the honest feedback. Maybe I was too naive..

tintin 16y ago

You could also tell why the one you hired was successful.

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
No you can't. The rejected candidate can say "But I can do X Y and Z better than they can!" and now you're in an endless death spiral.
- tintin 16y ago
  My experience is that a lot of people don't have any problem with it. It is more friendly to say: "the hired candidate has a lot more experience" than "you lack experience". The death spiral candidate will try to discuss his rejection anyway.